The problem is that there is no way for Xert to send a workout to Wahoo.
The ideal way would be that Wahoo opens up an API, to which Xert and other platforms can send workouts, which will then be put on the Elemnt via the Elemnt app. Wahoo has chosen to implement this functionality for a limited number of platforms, like TrainingPeaks and Trainerroad. Garmin on the other hand has opened up an API, on which workouts can be uploaded.
Absolutely. Wahoo with their closed ecosystem are going to obsolete very quickly. Companies that don’t open their API for fear of others developing features they won’t even implement are just shooting themselves in their foot.
Hammerhead needs to scale up their operation tho, and become a bit more responsive to adopt new features. But the Karoo2 is starting to look solid, and the option to run EBC is just killer in my opinion.
Everything that Garmin wanted to do with iQ, but with the stability of Android.
Funny thing is that even Wahoo runs on an older android platform, would be cool to hack it into a monochromic EBC… nah.
Wahoo isn’t obsolete yet. Still no explanation for why Xert workouts can’t be transferred to Wahoo devices. My guess is Xert wants all or nothing - no ability to use SMART workouts means no deal. Obviously Xert could easily provide means to transfer the usual FTP based workouts to Wahoo devices (just like TrainingPeaks, Today’s Plan, and TrainerRoad) but they are choosing not to. It reminds me of the Xert iOS app issues (doesn’t support landscape and no Apple TV specific app). Whether it’s arrogance or resource allocation is for you to decide. I suspect both.
As a new Xert user. This sucks. I understand it. Being that I’m a developer myself and I get to work with API’s at work. You can only work with that data you get back from the service you trying to work with. Sometimes it’s just out of your control. I really like my Wahoo head unit and don’t play on buying a new computer any time soon. Hopefully Wahoo will open their doors to the data in the future.
It’s been like this since we started so I don’t expect them to open things up. Your best option is to buy an inexpensive Android device and use that for doing workouts (or as a back up head unit). Far better than using the Garmin or Wahoo workout player. I’ve been using one for workouts and as my bike computer for more than 3 years.
Search AliExpress for Cubot Kingkong Mini 2 (4" screen, size of a Garmin 1030) or Kingkong Mini 3 (4.5" screen).
Add a stick-on (3M VHB tape) quarter-turn mount; also available on AliExpress.
You will need a power pack for rides longer than 8 hours. My KKM2 is down to ~6+ hours runtime after two years as my only head unit, outdoors and indoors.
BLE sensors only.
EBC app supports my Garmin RTL515.
If caught in rain I transfer unit to Ziplock bag in jersey pocket.
The core features of EBC are the same on iOS or Android, but the Android app has additional features conducive to running EBC as your head unit. For example, the ability to define which data fields are shown on which page. The iOS version has a fixed subset that pales in comparison.
There isn’t much point in Xert expanding the iOS version as Apple phone options are limited in scope (price and form factor). The Kingkong Mini 2 shown above is < $100 USD.
My journey with head units is described in this post –
Generally, cycling media sites recommend Garmin, Wahoo devices and don’t review phone options that might replace them. This may change as athletes become more comfortable using their phones. There are better and better mounting options and can be used together with lights that act as power banks that allow them to record all day. Many in my cycling club have gone this way and the numbers are increasing as members look to replace their current head units. Seems like a no-brainer really but mindsets are often hard to change.
Garmin devices are many times more expensive than a cheap Android phone if the main purpose is to do workouts. Our Garmin Workout Player is good (award winning even) but was built with Connect IQ which is far more work for us to enhance, maintain and support than an Android app. Android apps are easier to write and debug and new features can be added much more easily than Connect IQ. Indeed in the future, we may need to discontinue support for our Garmin datafields/apps depending on the direction we go with the Xert 2.0 exercise model. There isn’t a lot of flexibility to do complex computational algorithms on them.
In terms of the apps, we designed the Android app to be more of a general workout and activity recording device that you can use on your handlebars whereas the iOS app is more for workouts but can also be pocketed while recording outdoor rides.
I really hope you continue to support data fields for Garmin. A fundamental problem with mobile phones (and some bike computers that use LED screens) is that their LED screens are very poor in sunlight. See photos below - a Garmin 830, HH K2, and Iphone SE, one indoors, one in bright sun. Note the K2 is set to 100% brightness in both photos, the Garmin is set to auto. The problem with LED screens is that in sunlight you need to turn up the brightness more and more (eating battery), and will lose anyway against the sun. LCD screens (like Garmin and I believe Wahoo) work much better for this purpose as the background reflects the light (its opposite you turn down the backlight as it gets sunnier), however obviously this is not the most optimal technology for smartphones that are primarily used indoors.
The Garmin 830 is by far my preferred choice for long rides in the summer - and the screen show is my default one (with Xert fields!)
PS there may be a influx of cheap 2nd hand Karoo’s if they persist with this new uglified display
I find that I can see my display pretty much all day. There are moments around midday when I’m riding into the sun that it may be harder to discern. But then again, I don’ t ride a lot during midday so maybe don’t encounter the situation very often.
The LCD colour displays are quite nice for legibility outdoors, although the super AMOLED screens seem to do quite well in direct sunlight. Will be great as this tech makes its way onto more devices.
@xertedbrain or @ManofSteele from a Canadian perspective what is the best low cost Android device for running the EBC app? and where is the device available for purchase? I don’t live in a large metro area like TO so probably an on line source? thanks
I agree. I know Xert wants to focus on the SMART workouts and all this AI stuff but they fail to realize that is WAY ahead of most new users to their platform. There is still a place for FTP based workout files, if only to make things simpler for new users to get into Xert.
However, I was just messing with this stuff again and Training Peaks workout Import is a complete joke. It used to work despite being a hassle (had to convert formats). Now every workout I try Importing into Training Peaks generates an error message. You can use the Workout Editor in Training Peaks create workouts and transfer them to a Wahoo ELEMNT device but that editor is so lame. I suspect the TP import tool can’t deal with simple linear ramps, just steps.
In general, it seems everyone doing these training platforms is dead set on re-inventing the wheel and having everyone conform to their way of doing things. I think it’s a really bad idea that’s leaving the window wide open for someone to do it right. Most likely these smaller platforms will get bought by companies like Zwift, Strava, or TrainerRoad - the ones who seem to understand the user interface part but still need help with the workout part.
PS. I have no idea why Wahoo doesn’t simply add an option on their devices to import a workout file and avoid the need to sync with any training platform. It seems that in their quest to make things simple, they’ve really reduced the functionality. Maybe this will get some attention when Today’s Plan closes in a few months.
Training Peaks, Today’s Plan, and TrainerRoad can all push workouts to Wahoo devices. I used to be able to use Training Peaks to Import Xert FTP based workouts but something is wrong with TP Import right now. I hope this starts working again, because although I’m not getting the full benefit of Xert SMART workouts, I still find the FTP based workouts and “Training Advisor” aspect to be quite good. At least at was until the changes this fall. Last year the “Training Advice” portion of Xert worked REALLY well for me.
My understanding is that Wahoo devices are based on Android so Xert developers should love that. Apparently, most of what they use is open source and the CEO is “proud to see owners of his products modifying them for their specific needs, and he’s happy to facilitate that in any way that he can.”
Maybe their stance has changed since that article?
I know I’m not the only one who’d be very happy to just be able to upload Xert FTB based workouts to my Wahoo ELEMNT device without the hassle of going thru Training Peaks (assuming that will work again someday soon - doubtful IMO). I can do the SMART workouts using the Xert workout player on my iPhone AirPlayed to my AppleTV, but so that experience is SO BAD that I still usually choose the FTP based workout and so I can use Zwift instead. I’d prefer not to pay the extra for Zwift but the Xert EBC on iOS is just awful. Outdoors, I’d much rather use my Wahoo ELEMNT (SMART or FTP based - don’t really care).
What exactly is preventing Xert from doing what Training Peaks, Today’s Plan, and TrainerRoad already do?