Workout integration with Wahoo

I started this thread almost 5 years ago, which is an eternity in technology terms.
Wahoo obviously is not going to do anything, they do not care, and most users simply got tired to ask (I am)
I recently watched the interview from DC Rainmaker to Wahoo CEO and had a clear impression of a closed minded short sighted individual. They’ve been slow beyond reason to create and open their API.
I find it extremely frustrating that they have an iOS app and don’t support uploading a structured workout to their head unit.
The BOLT v2 is obsolete, a decent entry level unit, but nothing more.
I own a Karoo 2 and while they have similar limitations at least they allow to upload structured workouts thru web interface. It’s simple, not ideal, but works on mobile devices etc.
Of course there’s the Xert app that runs on Karoo, so that makes everything easier.
As far as I’m concerned the only solution for wahoo is to sell the unit and get a Karoo.

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As @xertedbrain mentions, Wahoo is a closed system. It is not possible for a 3rd party to develop an app or datafield for the Wahoo.

Also, all the integration to workout and route providers happens in the device. So a 3rd party like Xert can only be integrated if Wahoo decides to add it to their firmware.

On Garmin, 3rd part can interact with Garmin Connect APIs to make routes or workouts available. It is not perfect, but better. You can also develop 3rd part datafields (to show e.g. MPA).

I think the route and workout integration on the Wahoo is very good, given they have an integration. But unless you use something mainstream like TrainingPeaks or Strava, they do not have the integration.

And from the interview with the CEO I get the feeling they are more into the business of selling hardware. They will not develop a new watch, they will probably only do hardware improvements to the bolt, no major feature expansions as you see in Garmin.

So now I only use Wahoo for the Headwinds and the Kickr Bike. :smiley:

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Wahoo, Garmin and Hammerhead make great head units but personally I’ve been using an inexpensive Android for many years (King Kong Mini). Last year, a couple of other units came to market: Blackview N6000 and Doogee Smini which, with a simple stick on adapter, make an excellent unit for using Xert metrics with EBC while riding. If you have a RWGPS account, you can even get turn-by-turn navigation with voice cues in the background. Might be better than pfaffing with all these others for training.

My KKM2 replacement just arrived. :+1: 15 days from Hong Kong. $105USD with shipping.

Original is 3 years old now and down to just over 5 hours of juice.
I’d rather not carry anything extra to keep it charged longer.
New unit should last 8+ hours but I never ride that much. YMMV :wink:

Here’s my old one mounted on road bike.

One downside – If I get caught in rain it goes into a Ziploc bag in my jersey pocket.

Ironically I have ended up going back to my Bolt v1 for outdoor structured training (also have a Garmin 830 and Hammerhead K2) - sometimes simple is best…

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Well TrainingPeaks confirmed that Importing workouts is not longer allowed. You can only use their (lame) workout editor to create workout files that can then be transferred to Wahoo devices. So that’s another option gone!

Today’s Plan is gone in a few months so that only leaves TrainerRoad and their private workouts (as far as I know you can’t do custom workouts or import outside workouts onto their platform). IME, TrainerRoad has rock-solid apps for iOS and tvOS but they can’t compete with Xert for training advice. I haven’t used TR since they’ve gone Ai though (basically copying Xert but who isn’t - everyone is on the Ai bandwagon these days).

Anyway, these developments have really left a hole you’d think Wahoo would be interested in filling ASAP. I think Xert and any Wahoo users should view this as a renewed opportunity to push for full Xert integration. Personally I’d be very happy with simple FTP-based workouts transferring to my Wahoo as a first step (like for Zwift) and I think many others would be as well. You can always work on adding SMART workouts and adding advanced stats (MPA, etc.) later. The key is getting users on the Xert platform!

This is a great opportunity for Xert to get more users onto the Xert platform! Don’t pass it by! If at first you don’t succeed, try again… and again…

PS. I’ll be sending basically the same message to Wahoo soon. I actually already brought it up via Wahoo Support, but haven’t received a reply so I’ll try again…

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You can create your own workout in TrainerRoad. It is also possible to import .erg files ++. They provide a separate workout builder app for that. In fact, that is how I run my Xert workouts.

TrainerRoad’s approach to “AI” (I don’t like that term as it is misleading) is very different from Xert’s approach. TrainerRoad adaptive training will only adjust the difficulty of the workouts in the plan so you have proper progression based how hard you feel the previous workout was. They also estimate the FTP periodically. It will not manage your training volume based on how much you have trained outside the plan.

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Can you create true ramps or only steps?

I was generally happy with the TR workout collection just not so much the (lack of) adaptation and fixed planning. That was before their adaptive attempts and progression level stuff. Also didn’t like the lack of consideration for workouts outside. Can’t believe they still haven’t done that.

That is the most useful part of the Xert platform IMO. Too bad it’s not working for me this year and taking so much time to figure out the root cause.

I commend you for your efforts but this has been going on for 5 years. :frowning_face:
IMO Wahoo has no interest in supporting an API or 3rd party import procedure. It’s possible their units don’t have this capability. Their devices run an OLD version of Android (v6?) which is crippled and locked down. No doubt cheap to license.
No one has attempted to hack a Wahoo head unit in those 5 years that I’m aware of. Plus no one will want to support a hack.
Perhaps when “ALL NEW FIRMWARE” is announced something might happen.

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So it is possible to load an Xert workout to Wahoo ELEMNT devices manually. Kind of a pain but I don’t do structured outdoor workouts very often so it’s a viable option for me. Structured outside workouts somewhat defeat the purpose of being outside to begin with (at least for me) and I’m usually on my mountain bike (a singlespeed), so the terrain makes the structure almost impossible usually. However, there are times when the weather is nice and an outside workout is possible given the right workout and appropriate route on my local trails, so it is a nice option to have.

Anyway, to do this, you just plug your Wahoo device into your computer via USB and copy the workout file to the directory named “plans” on the device, force a Sync of Planned Workouts, and it will show up in your list as SD CARD PLAN. If you load multiple workouts, they all still get the same name on the device (which is really lame and annoying). The workout file needs to be in MRC format. I know TCX format doesn’t work but there may be other formats that do (waiting for a reply from Wahoo on that). You can use TrainerDay.com to Import your Xert workout then Export as MRC. Like I said, not convenient at all, but the process does work. Saves a lot of time compared to recreating your Xert workout in Training Peaks for sure. Only FTP based workouts of course but whatever.

Yes, you can create ramps. Here is a workout I have imported:

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I imagine all the lack of cooperation among some parties is their desire to push you to use their workout platform. I suppose they alienate too many potential Wahoo device purchasing customers if they ignore the bigger platforms like TP and TR.

I don’t think Wahoo would need any software or firmware changes to their devices for this - they just need to add the functionality to the phone app. Well I guess that depends on what level of cooperation you’re talking about. For direct sync, yeah they need to update the devices, but for basic file tranfers, the phone app would be a worthy improvement over using a cable.

This is incorrect, Wahoo would need to setup a 3rd party app/widget ecosystem due to Xert’s “non standard” (not in a bad way) approach to workouts. Like Garmin’s ConnectIQ or Hammerhead’s Android 3rd party apps. AFAIK nobody at Garmin “cooperated” with Xert, they just have the ConnectIQ ecosystem that lets the Xert team create custom apps and data fields.

So far Wahoo clearly has no interest in creating a similar ecosystem, presumably due to their focus on simplicity.

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Just to clarity, this would be to do it “properly” and avoid workarounds with file uploads.

In the meantime to get Xert workouts on a Wahoo device I think the best current option is to: 1. make sure no ramps or curves in the workout 2. Process the file through TrainerDay

From purely FTP based workout, the cloud API will be gaining the ability for integrators to push structured workouts into the platform[1] for use on head units.

[1] Wahoo Fitness API Reference

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Coming soon.
I’ve heard that from Wahoo before…

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Yeah, I was only referring to FTP-based workout files in most of my comments. To add something like MPA on these devices definitely requires a lot more cooperation in the form of APIs or an entire ecosystem, as you call it, like Garmin has but, yeah, there’s no way in hell Wahoo will be doing that (and I don’t blame them at all). However, Wahoo could certainly add MPA as a field that only works if you Synced with Xert (to get the needed Fitness Signature data).

Yeah I’m pretty sure I saw references to that as far back as 2020, 2022 for sure, so I wouldn’t count on that happening anytime soon either.

It’s new. I also received an email yesterday from Humango asking for beta testers for testing their integration using it. (Well - they don’t say they are outright using that API, but it’s a safe bet since it appeared as coming soon and now Humango is beta testing direct integration)

I also checked archive.org, and it was not present as of March of last year.