Thanks to the very helpful responses, I now understand and enjoying the Forecast AI but I still have some occasional uncertainties.
Yesterday, I had a high intensity day and the selected workout was SMART - Runnin’ with the Devil - 60 - 97 Difficulty (I have not seen this before doing it). My training load is 56.9 (3.25 stars) and I was rested (well, xert thought I was rested, I am not sure about that).
Long warmup required (new year day, post hangover).
The first three intervals were hard but not really challenging.
I “died” two minutes in the 8 minute 180 XSS/hour interval. I may have been able to last an extra minute with a lot of mental effort but nowhere near 8 minutes.
The last three were very tough with my major problem being that I had to push almost 100w extra to keep the cadence I wanted.
I added an 1 minute hard effort at the end to fill my high xss bucket.
This workout met the XSS goals but I failed to follow it. The difficulty rating is surely above my training load.
My questions:
How should those intervals feel? Is it normal to fail as I did? Or shall I be looking at my fitness signatures? Everything else has been working well.
What is a doable alternative to those 8 minute long, 180 XSS/hour intervals?
I’ve definitely had the same experience myself a few times, where according to my current power curve I should have been able to complete the session but then I crapped out in the middle of some intervals. It tends to happen mostly when I’m not particularly well rested (sick, lack of sleep, not yet recovered from the previous session). Often when this happens I dial down the difficulty using the EBC app on the phone.
I’ve done the session you mention, and it’s definitely hard, demanding 100% focus to complete. You might just scroll through the training library to see what suits you. Personally I’ve found that I seem to do better with shorter, frequent intervals like 30/15 or 40/20. You could also try the autogen feature, which most of the time generates workouts that I can complete fairly easily (although they tend to be a bit long).
Thanks. I was definitely not in the best shape but I am not sure if I was feeling better I would be able to hold think I will try it again in a better day just in case. Most of the auto gen workouts are not bad, just tend to boring.
tbh it can happen, on a bad day yesterday I struggled to complete ~45s autogenerated high intervals . Just what happens when you’re not recovered or not on a good day. With such a long interval its even more likely to happen
I’m not sure I’d bother to be honest unless you are super time crunched / need to get the most XSS into an hour… you could get similar benefit from longer, lower difficulty workouts if you have time…
Did you switch into Slope mode when you ran into trouble and try to do the best you could?
Even on a good day I’m no good on long VO2max intervals like that so I would have selected an alternate workout such as SMART Killing mw Slowly - 60 which accomplishes the same goal using short intervals (something I’m good at).
VO2max is more a physiological state you want to train at rather than a specific workout type to follow.
If the short interval method gets you to that state and allows you to hold that strain longer, that’s what you should do. Over time you can circle back and try the tougher version if you want.
As for me, I’m going to select an alternate from the suggested list which always include options with same Suitability.
Another option is to run Autogen but that doesn’t guarantee a workout you can complete at 100% compliance either. Here’s an AI Generated Workout I did recently and wasn’t able to complete each interval at the prescribed duration. I was about 15-20 seconds short on each set of three so I added an extra interval (like you did) to fill my buckets. What I forgot to do was extend the cooldown to hit my Low target but I did get intended Focus Type for the day (Mixed Breakaway Specialist).
Looks like you really had a fun time on that workout
It’s a tough workout but far from extreme and you can barely pull MPA down.
Maybe try it again if you feel fresher. But looking at your resulting MPA I’d bet the issue is much more a signature error than bad recovery.
And I doubt that this workout should feel like “dying”.
Personally I’d reset my signature as the very next thing.
I have time. In fact, I am usually adding 30 extra minutes to prepare for those. I was never a quick to warm up rider and now at my 50s I need even more time. I have manually told the planner to that I have 90 minutes for workouts and 120 on the weekends.
What would you substitute these 180 XSS per hour intervlas with?
Thanks for this. I am the same: I cannot keep a steady VO2Max level. Even IRL I am riding with short strong intervals. I only accepted the selection because it looked interesting
I did not switch to slope the first time but I did a higher intensity, shorter interval. I got the same low, high and peak XSS in the end.
If the short interval method gets you to that state and allows you to hold that strain longer, that’s what you should do.
So, I think I am starting to get it: Goal is to fill the three buckets while staying in focus. Focus is what tells you that the intensity is right and buckets tell you that you spend enough time at the intended intensity. I only started using the buckets garmin field last week and it’s been a game changer.
Thanks. I have spend a lot of time adjusting my signature (with the help of the people in this forum) and particularly trying to reduce the TP, only to get it back at the next ride with breakthrough. I think I am rider that is affected very much from day to day variations and even more from mental difficulties with longer efforts.
“Low daily form” is when you struggle to pedal through the tast 30s of an effort or something. But look at what you (not) did:
You don’t even get anywhere close to what you should do from the very beginning.
Doesn’t need to be that your TP is wrong, it could equally be HIE and/or PP.
I suggest to discuss with support how to get this back on track.
(*) I really don’t see it happen, but in case tomorrow you wake up and walk through that workout without any issue, srcatch anything I said. Good luck!
Maybe lower the XSSR to 150… or say 180 for 2 min then 120 for the remaining 6 min… any shortfall in low TL can be made up for by riding longer… shortfall in high TL could be made up with another short interval…
Or you could just try shorter intervals but more of them
SMART workouts might adjust the power targets for rest intervals based on how hard you go in the work interval. So if you go hard you might get a lower power target. But it is not like it will make the workout easier because you were struggling.
You might want to try workouts in mixed mode, as they allow you to give what you can, but not fail the workout.
My experience with Smart workouts is if I miss peak or high on an interval, it adds the missed part to the next interval, making it harder. If I pause the workout to rest, my MPA recovers and then it hammers me on the next interval.
The only thing that has worked for me in that situation is to turn down the intensity from 100 to 85 or some value that makes the interval power at a level I can finish them.
