Cycling and Running (again)

So, last post about this seems rather old. I do run and cycle. I have been using Xert for a while now for running. That’s because a) I do not yet have a cycling power meter and b) it seems I need 2 accounts.

About that last statement. Is it still true?

I think for running Stryd now has a great offering for training. And a workout app on my Garmin. But nothing cycling obviously. Xert looks like it is in a great spot for me and other dual sporters to offer both. But it’s a little weird to need to accounts and not have both together. Cycling does makes my legs tired for running and vice versa.

Any thoughts or experience doing both?

2 Likes

Background - I am a triathlete (sprint, olympic and 70.3IM distance). I have been using my cycling account with a power meter and importing my runs with HR so I don’t have 2 different sets of power data. The runs with HR get “derived from heart rate” data. I mostly have done this to try to allow the system to account for fatigue from running, while prescribing workouts for cycling. Note, I have never seen someone from Xert recommend this method, but it seemed to work for me.

Cycling and running here as well. I don’t have two accounts for this, just one. I do running with HR derived metrics. Set this way, my signature and freshness / Training load data may not be 100% precise. But it is good enough for me.

4 Likes

I use a Stryd, so I don’t want to contaminate the system with my running data, but would like to have the system recognize my overall fatigue … even if it’s not entirely cycling-specific, it’s still fatigue. :slight_smile:

@bfrostie How do you remove the power data from your runs? Do you do it manually before adding to Xert?

1 Like

@jfc I only can record running power when I use my Garmin HRM-TRI heart rate monitor. So my simple solution was to switch to a different heart rate monitor. I don’t think that would be an option with Stryd.

1 Like

Thanks @bfrostie … I wish there was a way for Xert to strip / ignore power from non-cycling activities so I could track my overall fatigue with heart-rate derived metrics.

1 Like

I tried to find a way in Xert to strip power, or ignore power before just changing HR monitors. Honestly, I never found a use for running power, but I never trained with it. It wasn’t a big deal for me to not record it.

I am trying using Xert for running, swimming & cycling with two accounts as Xert recommends. I came across a post on Playing with Xert– Part 3 | The Athletic Time Machine (very old now) that suggested a way to manually add in certain elements of a run/cycle workout into the opposite Xert account. This way it seems to be accounting for my stress level without affecting the Power metrics e.g. MPA, PP, of my specific discipline’s signature, or at least I think so. My Xert run has the XSS, focus etc calculated in my Run account which I then manually enter into the Cycle account. I am assuming that this will use both the appropriate signature, Power & HR thresholds to calculate the run’s XSS, specificity & focus so will be better than stripping out Power fields & letting e.g. my Cycle account calculate a Run’s XSS but presumably based on my Cycle’s signature. I can then decide which discipline’s workout to do on the day based on how e.g my legs/arms feel, time already done for each discipline that week/fortnight & whether I want to do e.g more running or cycling in that week. This seems to make sense to me but I am very new to Xert & so naive as to whether this makes sense to others or has significant drawbacks. Any thoughts of Pros & Cons of this method from others would be much appreciated.

I forgot to say. With swimming I am just allowing both accounts to import the swims from Strava on the assumption that it will base XSS on HR and not mess up anything else. I then manually change the Focus & Specificity for the swim workout based on what type of intervals/workout I have done & how Xert grades similar styles of run/cycle workouts. Again makes sense to me but perhaps might have drawbacks?

The suggested approach seems sensible enough.
I’m in the same boat as you now, having slowly moved away from 100% cycling into a 40% cycle, 60% run split over the past year.
I was using a Garmin vivoactive to record my runs and was happy with the heart rate derived metrics bundled in with my cycling power with a single xert account.
I’ve recently purchased a Coros pace 2 which calculates power as I specifically want to train with power and of course now xert is pulling that from my workouts rather than deriving heart rate, bit of a pain really, wish you could just tell xert to ignore power for certain activities.
I guess it boils down to how much time you’re willing to invest to manage all this, for me I’m not sure I can be bothered to either strip power data from each run and use a single xert account or double up as you mention which seems to involve even more manual effort.

Many thanks for your reply.

I have just upgraded to a yearly subscription so I can have a second free account. So far the only problem that I have encountered with my cunning strategy is that Xert is not letting me load a manual workout on the same day that I do it. Instead it is only offering it as a planned workout. That means that I have to wait for the next day before I can load in the run/cycle/swim workout to the opposite account which is a bit of a pain.

In fairness the time to load in the activity once allowed is very quick as it is just accessing the Xert platform, clicking on the planner to open a manual workout & then copying 4 metrics across. I did try stripping out the power using Fitfiletools.com but the problem is that method is definately time consuming but worse, that Xert then applies an estimated power metric presumably based on HR & an incorrect fitness signature (i.e. a cycle one when you are uploading a run). That means I think that Xert will then analyse that activity’s power & potentially incorrectly update the Fitness Signature. Stripping out HR as well as Power could solve this but then what advantage over creating the manual workout method?

In terms of time/effort I feel that it is worth the small extra effort so as to recognise that Cycle & Run have (sometimes very) different Fitness Signatures & analyse them accordingly. I presume that, with coming from 100% cycling, you are probably a significantly better cyclist than runner at the moment (e.g. high FTP, Peak Power etc) & so the difference for you could be quite marked also.

It might be worth you emailing Xert HQ & asking their opinion as they will be able to see your activities, Fitness Signatures & judge Pros/Cons versus any extra effort for you. They (Ollie) answered a couple of queries from me with a great & relatively easily understood explanation. I do take you point about the time needed to optimise Xert though as it has far more in depth analysis than any other platform that I have used. The Xert blogs & forums are like being transported into a PhD Sports Science course. If you don’t though it seems like you may be missing out on the full benefit that you are paying for both in money & sweat.