I really like the flexibility of XERT as it fits my very unpredictable schedule. I have a couple suggestions/requests.
I would find it very useful to have an XSS remaining for week counter. Ideally this would match with TL and ramp Rate in the goals section. For example if I have a TL of 100 last week and a ramp rate of 2 how much XSS do I need to produce this week (I still have no idea what this number is or should be)? In keeping my schedule flexible sometimes I find it a challenge as I’m following the XATA and the XATA assumes I will be or can do similar length workouts on a given day as previous weeks. If I have a static schedule that could be predicted in this way I would use a static plan. This can really affect progress if I don’t have that same amount of time and haven’t been closely tracking my XSS/day or looking forward using the planner. For example XATA is consistently suggesting a workout with XSS of around 80 for much of the week but when I get to Saturday I have a much larger workout with an XSS of 180+. If I knew this I might have tried to spread that XSS over multiple days during the week when I had more time/capacity.
Similarly if I could toggle off the XATA to use previous weeks workouts based on day that would be ideal. Again if I know the total XSS for the week and know my schedule for the week I can plan out my activities based on time/focus/XSS. The time and focus is great right now, but it is a struggle to understand how much XSS I need to produce for the week at target focus.
Below is an example from my planner. I had a TL of 93.8; in the following week I produced enough XSS/day to more than exceed my current TL by the ramp rate of my goals (104.3 produced) but still ended with a ramp rate of -2.2 and a TL of 91.6 It would have been great to know from the beginning of the week what XSS total I needed to maintain the ramp rate.
Also would be great to be able to see longer term table in the planner; either a similar dropdown to progression tab or something like view last 15 records.
I really like your ideas, mainly because I am a similar situation as you!
I try and keep it simple, It does not equate to this all the time but virtually if you imagine 1 min = 1 XSS and using that idea when Monday comes around you can go to your planner and click on Sunday. It will show that you have a deficit of "XXX"XSS.
This give me an idea how many hours I need in the week and then I can plan my week accordingly. I also periodically click on Sunday throughout the week to see what my XSS deficit is and treat it as “remaining”
Is this the right way to do it? I don’t know, but it seems to work and get me within the ball park of what I need to do.
Here is a example for me, this is my remaining week;
SO this is saying at this time, I need to shoot for around 317/60 (mins) = 5.28hrs.
Now that I know that, lets say I cant ride on Wednesday but I can do a "2” hour ride on Thursday. So on the planner tab I go to Wednesday and let XATA plan something for me with my time request.
Then on the planner tab and clicking sunday it now corrects a weekly defict of 205 (3.4hrs). I know that I need to fit 3.5hrs into the rest of my week before Sunday at 11:59pm (while not turning myself to deep into Red Star)
I basically ignore the last week hour recommendation right now and force it to calculate based on the hours I know I can ride and am somewhat planning based on EOW XSS.
If you go to the planner and click on any upcoming day, you can see your training deficit as of that day that you clicked on…In other words, how much TSS you need. So, on a Monday, if you click on Sunday, you see the amount of TSS needed for the week.
A suggested by @teddygram there are some work arounds by looking at required hours or using the planner… but in the case here
I actually think there is something weird going on as doing more XSS per day than your TL should increase TL (by roughly 1/9 of the excess). You can see it reverses the following week (ramp is much higher than it should be) so seems to be a timing issue. Were you perhaps riding during your ‘usual activity time’? Maybe that caused some of the XSS to be allocated to the wrong week…? But it’s weird that it’s not consistent between the XSS/day and the ramp…
Thanks for the feedback. This is what I started doing over the past couple weeks and I think it works, relatively well (it didn’t work in my prior example where ramp rate and TL went down).
I’m not sure what the Planner XSS for the week is based on though? Is it to maintain the Ramp Rate on TL or is it based on past week or 2 weeks? Also think it would be great to show this in the XATA training pacer area instead of going to planner. I’m not sure how common it is to use like this, but if it is common it seems like it would be a good/simple feature to include rather than operate as a workaround. If not a common use then I think this way of operating is fairly straightforward.
I like playing with my training so could see myself monkeying in the planner even if this feature was implemented.
I thought it was something to do with exponentially weighted XSS over time?
The activity times are all well within the day they are counted in. The week the TL dropped in the planner the Sunday said I had a deficit of 9 XSS and the pointer was straight up. As long as it’s an error and is smoothing out over time that is great. Just interested to know if there is something more playing into that number where using the weekly approach won’t enable that TL and ramp rate I’m aiming for.
I do have some pretty serious weekly swings in XSS based on availability. But over time it does tend to contribute to a trending upward load. Hoping that XERT can help me adequately compensate and work through my random schedule. So far so good.
Xatly. Having that number in the XATA would be great. If that number is actually the number I think it is and means what I think it means. Currently it’s the best practice that I’m using.
Pretty sure it’s a bug or edge case, so you can work the way you are. The trainer pacer is just based off your TL, and basically requires you to 60/7 (roughly 9) extra XSS per day to ramp by one per week (extra 18 for ramp of 2 etc)
Exponential weighting is not the problem. If you want to get to the bottom of it you can check with support otherwise it did even itself out as you see the following week.
basically i just click on Sunday to see the total of XSS and will know how much XSS is needed daily.
e.g 700XSS on Sunday which Sat and Sun i can manage to do 300XSS. Remainder of 400XSS, i just plan accordingly for Mon to Fri. Of course, i will tend to go for some surplus by Sun.
Have been using with reasonable success the “Sunday solution” as I mentioned, but thought I’d track it a little more closely to see how well it’s working. Thought some might find this interesting.
Started Monday with no activity, XSS required by clicking on Sunday in planner 720.
New XSS required by clicking on Sunday in the planner 495 (checked on both Tuesday after workouts and Wednesday morning). So if you add the XSS of 60 on Monday and 235 on Tuesday and the 495 remaining I now have a weekly XSS of 790. 70 XSS more than when I started the process with 0 activities during the week.
I’ll be continuing through the week adjusting to the original 720 XSS target and see if things change.
that is what i did for months by just checking on Sunday XSS…… will get positive ramp rate at the end of Sunday even on slight deficit but i usually go for slight surplus.
This is just a theory, but I think what is happening in your case and its really exaggerated because how much XSS you take on is that the system is basing your value on a 7-day rolling period. So its seeing what you have already done and then looking back last week at what you did for the “predicted” upcoming days and trying to calculate it based on that.
Where when you looked at Sunday on Monday that you had a “clean” 7-days to work with and its ramping it over what your past 7-day’s were.
Does this make sense?
Meaning that you still only need to shoot for 720 and when you get to the end of the week and you click on Sunday or you finish Sunday, if you have have a 720XSS for the past 7-days it will then say you have a 0 deficit (or close to it).
It will be interesting to see what it says this Sunday - especially if you actually do perform 720xss for the week.
I’ve been doing the same mental gymnastics. Trying to see why it would be climbing so much in relation to the efforts that I’ve put in early in the week. Again this is my strange schedule where I have time at the beginning of week, less in the middle, and maybe more on the weekend. I’ll be taking a solid 1-2 days off the bike leading into a bigger ride Saturday. Wondering if the XSS adjusts based on something close to the model you are suggesting if it will start to fall? I’m thinking not as the calculation should already be taking into account 0 activity leading to Sunday. Wondering if another big activity on Sunday (still not exceeding the initial 720 XSS identified for TL and ramp rate) will modify the “Sunday number” again?
I did another small thought experiment based on the modeling where only 7 days out would be the accurate number; and everything else would require calculation from that original “Sunday number” to keep track manually. I Looked 7 days out from today (all with no activity) and it provided me a training deficit of 738 XSS. My previous week has a forecast of TL 102.8 with the weekly XSS of 720. With a ramp rate of 1 next week should be around 104. The 738XSS for the week looks to be 105.4 which is reasonable given it is calculating based on my heavier load at the beginning of this week, and not indicative of the average planned work over the entire week.
I think this might reinforce how a weekly counter or remaining XSS for the week might be a good feature. I can see how this might not fit into the continuous live model that Xert is using for most metrics, as it would be taken from a static point and not change for the week. I would find tit to be a great feedback mechanism and motivator. Especially if the barometer had marks for -1TL, 0TL(flat), +1TL, +2TL, +3TL. Would help me judge when I go overboard with a big week if I’m reaching into an aggressive ramp rate or getting into territory of “DANGER! NO RETURN!”.
Quick mockup in case the written description is unclear.
I think to solve the mystery you don’t have to look at what you did this week or last week but rather what you did 60 days ago (for low TL) and 22 days ago (for high and peak TL) because that’s what’s just falling out of the TL equation and needs to be replaced to keep TL the same.
At least as far as I understand it.
I’m just not sure exactly how it is calculated, probably the new activities are weighted higher than the old ones?
So that is 189XSS remaining and roughly 3.15hours remaining for the week.
When I checked it on Monday it was saying 6.6hours and 395XSS, but with my current Tue, Wed, Thur ride being equal 211XSS if I add up 189XSS remaining that gives me a 400XSS for the week (+5 what it recommended on monday).
The tricky thing is I will “still” only be about 6.5-6.6hrs of working out if I do (2) 90-min indoor sessions, which if you look at my ATP its tracking me at 6.6hrs for this period.
All the research I have done with XERT indicates that you need to keep the Training pacer at 11 o’clock to 12 o’clock position to be effective with the program, in my situation and scenario that could probably be 380-400XSS for this week.
Yes, not too sure what the total curve is, but I know more recent activities are exponentially weighted. This is why that forward looking target is so important to me, because it is relatively impossible to calculate by just looking at your data. Even over the 60 days I know it will only build so much.
Let me add some additional background information here.
First Idefix gave some clues about TL calculation. It is a complex (black box for us, but trust the system) calculation taking into consideration your training from past X weeks (never sure if it is 6 or more).
Also remind that 1 min training is not equal to 1 XSS, as XSS amount is depended from the stress/strain of the exercise during this minute.
Back to your topics, few things, which will help you to plan easier:
Ramp rate is calculated based on overall week from Monday to Sunday (not from Wednesday to Tuesday or other)
To prognose your ramp rate over a week, then go in menu “planner”, then add exercise for each days in the future for a specific week, give the system few seconds to calculate an updated TL for that week (please note that it is better to put trainings from Monday to Sunday and not start to test 20 different trainings within a couple of minutes. If you would do so, the system will somehow stop recalculated. You will need to come back an hour later and do further testing.)
That should answer your initial needs.
As a final note to your initial post “Below is an example from my planner. I had a TL of 93.8; in the following week I produced enough XSS/day to more than exceed my current TL by the ramp rate of my goals (104.3 produced) but still ended with a ramp rate of -2.2 and a TL of 91.6 It would have been great to know from the beginning of the week what XSS total I needed to maintain the ramp rate.”
→ You are confusing TL and XSS/day. As mentioned above TL is considering several weeks from your past. The TL difference is between the one from this week and the one from past week (91.6 - 93.8 = -2.2). You can also see that the system logic is respected there. In wk starting 20-02, your XSS/day is less than the week before, that is why TL decrease (not always the case, but difference of XSS was significant enough there). But TL from that week (91.6) is still higher than 2 or 3 weeks before, where your XSS/days was lower than 104.3.
Week completed and I finished with a little more XSS than the original “Sunday number” forecasted as a deficit at the beginning of the week.
Original Sunday number 720xss.
Week completed 751.8 XSS
XSS/day 107.4
Ending TL 99
Ramp rate for week -1.2
I understand why the TL went down and why the ramp rate was negative. I have big weeks and small weeks, but continue to trend my TL upwards over an extended average time frame.
I’ve taken a few screen shots that demonstrate how my erratic schedule can effect training. Still a positive trend overall.
Still confused why the deficit on Sunday which seems to be the number that would lead to maintaining the ramp rate and moving the TL by the desired amount both changes throughout the week but can be consistent week to week.
To highlight this point last week starting Monday with nothing planned in the week the Sunday number was 720XSS. Which makes perfect sense. Hit slightly more than that but RR and TL dropped. This week as of Monday the Sunday number is 727XSS. Exactly what my improvement rate is set at +1. 1XSS per day added over the week. By end of day Wednesday I have accumulated 436XSS, front loading the week as no riding on the weekend. Sunday now shows a deficit of 400XSS. So to end week with no deficit I would be at 836XSS? 119XSS/day. Going to aim for around 740XSS and see what the ramp rate results in. As my TL and daily XSS during the week converge I’m expecting less unpredictable swings in TL and ramp rate.
I wonder if Xert compares each day of the week in the planner, and when days have activities it takes those numbers and just adds the comparative XSS for the remainder of the week? So if I have surplus Mon-Wed it takes those numbers as is and doesn’t compare to previous week anymore but for Thur-Sun continues to assess deficit based from previous week? This would make sense as my earlier week has been lighter in previous weeks and weekends have been heavier. This would equate to ignoring surplus at beginning of week and overestimating deficit for latter part of week.
Another discovery I made (again this could be just me) is that you can do the Sunday Number assesment at any point in the week and seem to get fairly consistent results. For example tonight I have the following Thur-Wed empty of workouts. Next Wed has a forecasted deficit of 742XSS which seems reasonable considering the heavy load so far earlier this week.
Slowly but surely figuring out the nuance of the system. Wondering if another idea would be a small notes section in the XATA so users could put little notes or goals? Like the Sunday number. Or have a notes section at the beginning or end of every week in the planner. Weeks could be flagged as riding camps or recovery and goals such as XSS for week could be noted. More helpful in reviewing your training to learn what worked and didn’t. Mini training journal.
Hi - I think you mentioned it yourself early in this post; TL is a weighed average of daily XSS score, where the most recent XSS count the most. So TL and Ramp are actually daily values that for “convenience” is presented in the “planner” as a weekly summary. When you click sunday I believe you are presented with the required XSS if you did all training on sunday. So if sunday = 700 XSS it is not the same as 100 XSS each day in the week. the daily variations of TL is best tracked through the progression chart.
The total XSS column in the planner is maybe the best guide for your erratic pattern, combined with your graph. Looks to me like the overall average is 113/d, to keep you round 100 TL
… will get positive ramp rate at the end of Sunday even on slight deficit but i usually go for slight surplus.
