I sometimes do hill reps or repetitive efforts on the same bit of road / climb. I hit lap at the same place on each part of the climb so I know on the ride how many I’ve done and the avg power for the previous lap on my Garmin there and then. I can’t seem to see any way of viewing these laps within the activity once uploaded to Xert.
Am I missing this or is it not implemented? Will it be at some point?
It’s sometimes handy or interesting to compare rides or efforts to see any changes etc.
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I’m the same as you and as far as I can tell there is no way in seeing your laps in xert.
This would be a good feature to add to help analyse your intervals.
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Even better than laps, would be automatic intervals detection.
Take a look at intervals.icu, they sync with Strava and do the intervals analysis for you.
https://intervals.icu
Needless to say, would be really cool to see that as an Xert feature:
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We’ve had this requested before. It is something we’re considering: laps, segments, intervals, etc. To me though, it appears that it becomes obsolete when you move away from traditional interval comparisons to looking at MPA. Interval comparisons are useful when you don’t have MPA. But if you have MPA, I’m not sure what you gain by comparing intervals. Looking at average power doesn’t mean much unless you also look at the starting MPA. When you do, then the ending MPA is key to how hard you went, regardless of average power. Still looking for something compelling in the context of MPA to use laps/intervals, other than people are used to using the feature on other systems.
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My initial post was about including intervals on a road ride rather than a controlled environment. I was finding it hard on a 4 hour ride with an hour of long hill reps for example to isolate the individual climbs and see how they compared with each other. Providing a lap function would make this easier as well as being able to compare MPA across the different efforts, especially when there’s a large length of data to look at.
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I want the Lap feature. I hope it would work like Strava Analysis that I can quickly select the Lap and see the related data.
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I don’t quite get the resistance to implement laps and similar. Seems a pretty straighforward and simple feature to implement.
I get @xertedbrain take “Roads? Where we going we don’t need roads…”, but some people do, or at least think they do.
But wouldn’t a lap function allow you to do this? Say I am doing hill reps,it would be good to see what my finishing MPA is on each of those reps?
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You can see (or mouse over) these on the chart directly. If you are looking to have a table with start/end times and start/end MPA with average power, for example, where you can click on each lap and have it highlighted on the map and in your data, that would be great, but it’s a heck of lot of effort to implement. (Truth be known, I’d like to have this myself). But outside of basic curiosity, it would be great to understand how this information will inform any future training or performance. Just because it can be shown and just because it would be interesting to see, doesn’t necessarily make it something that is valuable and actionable.
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Yes but if you had a simple lap function at the end of each section of a workout then at least you would be able to see interval average numbers in Strava.
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My point was about performing intervals whilst on a 2,3 or 4 hr ride. It’s tricky to isolate the efforts amongst all the other data from the ride. Or for example locating a regularly ridden segment and examining the pacing via MPA once back it’s hard to find in a 4 hour ride file, whereas locating a lap would be simple.
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When I do 10 hill repeats, yeah I want to see the avg watts for each effort.
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come on, people! everytime I come to this forum and read some suggestion from the community, the answers by the xert side are always careless. nobody knows what they want, know nothing about training and know nothing about navigate through this engineer-like-obtuse interface… and it’s all our fault.
the lap is not just about avg something, it’s a really simple omni-present function that helps like nothing else to navigate through the stream of data from the ride.
it’s a bookmark feature for navigation.
there’s nothing better yet. period.
if anyone is doing dozen hill reps, races, 5 hour rides with lots of efforts and wants to mark a specific effort anywhere, of any long, for whatever reason, that’s the tool.
it’s just fool to keep selecting, zooming in, and in again, and again and then out to reach a time period.
it’s like trying to reach out part of a book to review, remember, study and have no resource to mark it in plain XXI century.
outside of taking a quick look on mpa, I never analyse my rides on xert because is a pain in the ass. a big waste of time, like trying to pin ants on the ground.
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Thanks Jonas.
The people that we talk to that come to Xert without any preconceptions, looking a laps and intervals never enters their mind. Breakthroughs and fitness signature changes provide everything they need to understand what’s happening. It appears to be more of a remnant of how things have been done in the past when “breakthroughs” (i.e. improvements in performance) only ever occurred in intervals that you needed to review to see. How these performances related to training is something you had to try and piece together yourself. Understanding how intervals were influenced by different systems (low, high and peak) was something only the best of the best coaches could ever infer from your intervals and only when they are executed with consistency (which coaches demanded!!). Hence, marking intervals helped identify both the intensities and the consistency so that you could compare and then evaluate how your fitness might be improving. With Xert, all this goes away. Everything is black and white without any intervals needed. The system determines what you can do ride-by-ride rather than what you/your coach can infer from your intervals. All this analysis becomes obsolete.
I would love to understand how seeing intervals/laps lends additional value to understanding your fitness that Xert’s methods don’t already make obsolete. I think there are some good applications of them but would like to hear what the community thinks first.
Btw, it’s no small effort to do this so would really like to know how much additional value they can provide the community. Keep in mind, that reviewing laps/intervals is something you can do on other systems that are free. If our resources were free and unlimited, it would be nice feature. But as it stands, it would appear to be a big replication of effort for us and would tie up resources to do this without clear understanding of how much real value it would provide our user community at large.
Feel free to start a debate on this. It’s an interesting one. Open to new ideas.
hey @xertedbrain,
well, i’ve just said what i think. if you guys think of xert as just the tool for us to check when a breakthrought happen or not. it’s done.
apart from it, the activities, primarily the outdoor ones, are messy long files, with hours of endurance and peaks of high energy efforts. everybody, anyone uses a platform like xert, strava, etc to go through them like to scrutinize it and, for that, we need tools to navigate them. navigate the stream zooming in and out, trying to pinch several pieces, doesn’t help. it’s lame.
in front of all the engineering that’s xert, there’s the interface. if it doesn’t help, what’s behind become useless, because people cannot access it. don’t you like the easy quick access, multi ways and shortcuts your phone has to access the same things fast and clutter free? everybody does. because is useful.
what’s being asked is not about fitness, you are already delivering that, is about usability, accessibility.
it’s not a waste, it’s not aesthetics. in the end, if xert doesn’t want to do it, for now that’s fine. in my case i use strava for that. if it’s not an activity that has some kind of BT effort and i just want to know about the ones i did when in front of the last group ride and relate to how that feel (which is the majority kind)… they do a better job. you guys keep being just the analysing thing that i plug with the place i can get around more easily. just come here once in a while to check weekly strains, BTs and export some workouts.
and it’s ok! there are all kinds of “engines” in all tech industry that lives like that successfully.
usually someone will come and make the sense from it for the majority, like the intervals online service somebody posted. usually it’s the place where the thing itself escalates… just like happened with smartphones.
and that’s all i have to give about laps.
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“You just don’t get it.”
“Go listen to 17 podcasts.”
“You need a lesson…first one is free.”
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in fact you get it. but not from me. doesn’t need to.
i’m just externalising my frustration.
i don’t do podcast.
I was just being sarcastic, hence the quotes. Mods: I will now recede (slither) into the background again,
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Potentially where you want to analyse efforts that are below TP and so don’t draw down MPA i.e. endurance rides, which are 80% plus of what many do. For me, MPA analysis is only relevant for a fraction of my rides.
Can be useful to compare power vs HR for dedicated steady intervals throughout a ride (climbs or long uninterrupted stretches)… identify drift (how that looks for an interval early vs late in a ride)… identify improvements in efficiency or accumulation of fatigue over time (even if there are many factors affecting HR day to day) etc. There’s a huge amount of data and potential insight from endurance efforts which it feels like Xert ignores (other than including in training load) due to the exclusive focus on MPA.
To be fair, I think that’s not solved by adding laps alone though. E.g. ideally you’d have some kind of power vs HR (or HR reserve or more sophisticated) metric as well. The lap just helps the visualization and drilldown, and may make it easier to compare. I’d prioritize the HR insights over laps.
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Again, anecdotal example of where this would be useful for future training improvements if that’s what you need Armando.
I go back to my initial reason for requesting.
I have a 10-12 min climb I use sometimes to gain some real world long climbing before I head to the alps (albeit not recently…). I ride out for and hour 15mins, ride it tempo (or thereabouts) 5,10 maybe15 times then ride an hour 15 back.
I would like to easily isolate each of these climbs and their impact on my MPA to maybe see if my effort could be increased next time or adversely to see whether I hadn’t got my calculations correct and should ease off to try to achieve the goals I set before I start the ride.
Same could be said for intervals out anywhere on a road ride?
I can find these laps easily in Garmin, Strava etc as they correspond to me pressing the lap function on my head unit. Unfortunately these platforms don’t tell me the metrics that we pay Xert for.