HRV integration with Xert Freshness / Fatigue Chart and Recommended Workouts

Would it be possible to integrate Xert Freshness / Fatigue Feedback and Xert workout suggestion with a Heart Rate Variability metric? For example, including an Xert feature for importing a daily HRV metric from the HRV4Training app (This app already has auto sync capabilities with other training platforms). The HRV metric is very valuable to accurately measure cumulative fatigue and avoiding overtraining. If the daily HRV metric could be imported into Xert it would be very useful to see this metric trend over several weeks/ months along with other metrics in thr Xert Performance Management Progression Chart.

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Great suggestion

It is a great suggestion. We’re looking at a number of angles to using HRV data to inform the suggested workout/focus. Predicting what HRV will be in the future is another ball game altogether and this would be as useful if not more in some ways.

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This would be an amazing feature! Thank you for looking into integrating HRV metrics into Xert.

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HRV data and specifically data from apps such as OURA ring to provide accurate fatigue levels would make the XERT recommended workout incredible. I already use my readiness score together with the recommended XERT workout to help me with determining my workout load for that day.

That would be a great functionality. From my experience, hrv score I am getting does not lie about my condition

Having used now Xert for sometime I can say that the workout planner does a good job of predicting or planning or anticipating my average recovery on a regular basis (after it has some solid block of regular workouts to learn from) however to be able to train at peak efficiency and understand my recovery more accurately especially effects of non regular or non anticipated stress such as work stress, sleep disturbance, alcohol, etc it’s hard to go on feel alone and such product like an Ours ring provide great metrics that I find helps me make an informed decision on how to adjust the planner workouts for that day week. I found the HRV alone is useless…and misleading…long term moving average is better but ultimately when I wake up in the morning the first thing I look at is how quickly and how low my heart rate was, came down during the night…time of deep sleep…body temperature. Overall this helps me know exactly how recovered I am and matches with what I am feeling but unsure about…so it gives me confidence in knowing my recovery metrics and ability to perform and schedule/adjust the workout planner according.

It’s a perfect match for Xert because it adapts to me and I don’t know if it’s just me but I feel like Xert understands me and what I think and when I start to adjust the planner it’s as if it understands that oh today you still not recovered ok how about we have this workout here.

In a perfect world Xert could have full access to my Oura data through the Oura Cloud and maybe even as an advanced feature with a small fee I wouldn’t mind paying for. Imagine if Xert could be trained and learn not just from the training stress data but also from the recovery/sleep data.

Just a thought.

PS: I am willing to donate all my Oura ring data to Xert if interested for research purposes :slight_smile:

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I second the suggestion about using HRV data. I use WHOOP and have data for going back more than a year and all of the big cardio work has been cycling on the road. Usually the same routes and equipment. I too would donate my data to assist in calibrating and validating software development.

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I second this. Using Oura + HRV4Training as my daily feedback, it would be even more useful integrated in Xert.

Using and correlating HRV data in Xert would be a great option.

At this moment I use the Garmin VivioActive 4 which uses HRV for it’s " Body Battery" function.
Body Battery together with heart rate in rest provides excellent indicators how your body is doing in terms of training and recovery.
E.g. I don’t drink hardly any alcohol but when I drink one beer at night my heart rate in rest is 1-2 beats higher then normal. Also my Body Battery has less recovered during my sleep. It is just that sensitive.
Also a long and tough ride on the bike shows immediatly in thw Body Battery and heart rate in rest.

Was wondering about this myself, does body battery and other similar HRV measures strictly measure cardiovascular readiness? Does xata freshness also incorporate some kind of muscle fatigue as well? Is it different?

Either way, would be really cool to see this incorporated somewhere, although I imagine that on days with high body battery or whatever measure you’re using you can move the freshness slider up a notch and see what it yields.

That would be a great feature.

yes HRV as a metric for ready to perform, as well DFA a1 may be useful as a metric for readiness as well and may (very big may) be useful for other things like intensity. If it was individualized like the signature it might be more useful rather than absolute break points. I am a big proponent for HRV.

Couple of interesting series of tweets today from Marco Altini for those that follow new developments in HRV and DFAa1:

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I still think as in TP that HIE personalizes that aspect of the metric, DFA a1 has personal potential. There is some significance to the 0.5 split for certain in that this is where the correlation pattern become chaotic, and above which there is pattern. The 0.75 is still a valid option to understand where the boundary between easy and not may be. Marco also is talking about daily morning HRV in the first tweet. I don’t think it is s00% ready for prime time but much like TP may not tell a whole story so too HRV and DFA a1 may be pieces of a story that add context. What Bruce Rogers and Thomas Gronwald are saying is that it has a general applicability, not blanket applicability. In their recent paper they have a section that describes some of the limitations they see and what they hope for future direction. Just like 4 mmol lactate is NOT the threshold for everyone (as Dr Skiba notes well) so it seems to be the case that DFA a1 0.75 or 0.5 may not be the thresholds for everyone either. Human physiology is never that simple.

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I have found it difficult to use HRV4T consistently. I am curious, does a waking Garmin Body Battery number correlate with any of this? E.G, Waking BB of >80 means full training plans… etc?

Any thoughts?

1 min reading using phone camera every morning as soon as my alarm goes off - couldn’t be easier for me, personally. I’ve made a habit out of it and now I don’t think I can not do it. May just take a 30-day period of reminding yourself every morning YMMV

From what I know, Garmin’s proprietary BB is based on HRV and breathing rate (hard to get accurate from wrist-based sensor). But you could just manually account for that for the time being. In your example, if BB < 80, then filter workouts to <= 2.0 Diamond Endurance (or free-ride nice and easy). If BB > 80 then aim for one of the recommended HIIT workouts, use the Freshness Feedback slider, if necessary.

My camera doesn’t play nice with the app, otherwise I would use daily. (Samsung s21, just not getting good readings)

I chose 80 out of my hat…Is that an actual number you would use?

For what it’s worth, here is Garmin’s chart

I as well use the HRV4Training app every morning when I wake up. I am a bit more complicated in my approach, I have my heart rate strap next to the bed, put it on and do 2 minute orthostatic (2 min laying down 2 minute standing). I find this really easy, and for me if I am going to waste time doing it then I want good data that is why I do orthostatic. I had too many bad readings using the phone camera, whereas I have almost always optimal readings using the polar H9 strap. YMMV… but for me easy peasy. Now all we need is that morning HRV be a part of the Xert ecosystem!

Yeah, I think as long as you find something that’s consistent on a day-to-day basis - that’s all that matters!

I think it’s easy enough to work any ‘readiness score’ into Xert already. I’ll outline very simply how I’ve already been doing this:

  • If my training status is yellow in Xert, I already know I’ll be doing low-intensity riding.
  • If my training status is blue, but HRV is outside of baseline (or I just don’t feel ready to go) I simply filter by 2-diamond endurance workouts (or free ride below LTP) and aim to hit close to my recommended XSS target
  • If my training status is blue and HRV is good, I’ll look at the HIIT recommendations from XATA. I usually peek ahead in the week (using the fitness planner) to have a general idea of the recommended Focus & workouts

But that’s just how I do it. As always, YMMV :slight_smile:

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