Feeling a bit despondent with XERT and debating giving up

Training
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I have used XERT since about September last year, this year I chose base build peak in January 1st and it ended a couple days ago.

I was struggling to keep up with the weekly XSS it seemed to give me the same thing everyday unless I had gone way overboard on the intensity the day before and even then it never gave me rest days it was a relentless grind trying to keep up.

once it ended I thought going on a continuous program I might get a bit more easy days but even set to slow it wants me to do 16 hours a week, I did my second longest ride ever time wise yesterday at 5 hours with some intensity and today I’m on a 214xss deficit. It’s set to slow I can’t see how this level of demand is only slow progress.

My FTP number it gives me is only 190 after all the hours and effort I’ve put in it’s feeling a bit futile at this point. I’ve seen newcomers saying they are 200 watts FTP as a beginner I’ve done 311 hours so far this year and I’m not even at what a lot of people seem to start out at. Cycling can be quite elitist and maybe people will say my 16 hours a week are rookie numbers but none of the cyclists I know have ever done a 10 hour week let alone consistent 16 hours a week but yet they are probably faster than me.

I dunno what to do I feel pretty crap about it.

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Hi @Lozi ! First off, I want to acknowledge what you’ve actually done this year. You’ve taken your training load from 71 to 126 since January! That’s roughly +3 TL/week sustained for four months through a Base-Build-Peak cycle. That’s genuinely hard work!

A few thoughts on what you’re seeing:

On the “no rest days” feeling… Xert will always recommend something; that’s by design. The overall volume it asks for is driven by your Improvement Rate (IR), not by whether you rode yesterday. The good news is you can change your IR anytime. Dropping to Maintenance or Taper when you need recovery is exactly how we intend athletes to use it! Sounds like you might benefit from a week (or more) of reduced volume & dedicated recovery.

On the volume itself… you’ve accumulated a lot of training load (~126), and at that level, even “Slow” IR requires a substantial XSS load to keep producing progressive overload, which is the basic mechanism behind fitness gains. The program isn’t being unreasonable; it’s that the cost of continued improvement goes up as you get fitter.. the more you ride, the more you need to keep riding to maintain that fitness.

On the FTP comparison… firstly, I often like to remind myself in cycling that comparison is the thief of joy, especially in the age of “influencers” and social media. There will always be athletes with higher FTP, faster/more aero bike, etc. I think we all sometimes need to be reminded to celebrate our own progress & not be discouraged by comparing our training time, fitness level, etc. to others.

Now, back to your point… Comparing raw FTP between athletes is really difficult. Body size matters a lot (heavier riders tend to have higher absolute FTP regardless of training), and there’s a genetic component to where each of us can ultimately get to. You’ve actually seen meaningful improvement this year, which is great! You should celebrate that! Reaching the upper end of your own potential generally takes years of consistent training, and that journey is part of the fun of training, in my opinion.

A few questions might open this up for discussion among other users:

  1. What power meter or trainer are you using? If it’s pedal-based, double-check that your crank length is set correctly in the app… an incorrect crank length could throw the reading off noticeably.
  2. Are you training indoors, outdoors, or a mix? Structured workouts, free rides, or both?
  3. What Focus/Athlete Type do you have set?

If you’re comfortable sharing your XPMC chart, that would help the conversation along.. folks can then help review your data & contribute their thoughts.

I haven’t seen you write in to our team at all before, but this goes to anyone else reading this too… feel free to reach out to our support team if you want some feedback on your program settings, etc. Our goal is always to help our users get the most out of their training!

Cheers! :smiley:
Scott (Xert Support Team)

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  1. What power meter or trainer are you using? If it’s pedal-based, double-check that your crank length is set correctly in the app… an incorrect crank length could throw the reading off noticeably.

    I have Favero Assioma MX Dual sided pedals, they are set correctly.

  2. Are you training indoors, outdoors, or a mix? Structured workouts, free rides, or both?

    Outdoors only on a really crap bike using Xert Magic Buckets, I only do rides following the Xert daily workouts or do an easy 10 miles if I don’t have time etc

  3. What Focus/Athlete Type do you have set?

    it’s set to 10 minute power, to be honest the only reason I chose that was my intent is to improve FTP and just get generally faster/stronger so it felt like a good option for that. I was doing 3 minute power before the new year.

Thanks for the info, I am pretty light I weighed myself earlier fully clothed at 67kg.

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What age bracket?
How many years cycling?
Is there a reason you ride 7 days/week without any designated rest day(s)? Or is ride-every-day your primary goal?
Are you riding a bike for personal fitness goals or preparing for events?

Based on your XPMC you likely have a latent BT waiting to be expressed.
Next time you’re feeling especially fresh pick a route that allows you to execute the standard fitness test outdoors.

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That’s two ~20 sec sprints (stand and smash the pedals as hard as you can), full recovery between them, followed by a series of escalating intervals above TP until you fail on the last one.
You can alternately use Magic Buckets to execute the escalating intervals by following these instructions.
Let us know how you do.
If you acheive a BT go ahead and post the BT report.
BTreportIcon

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“latent BT” :white_check_mark:

…just need to ease off the gas after such a long period of sustained fatigue and solid ramp rate. Perhaps look for green or blue status for a number of consecutive days before attempting a BT.

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What age bracket?

I am 41

How many years cycling?

Since the start of last year for the current streak, there were a number of years before that I didn’t ride. I have tended to have a year or 2 on then 3 or 4 off completely over the past 16 years since I bought this bike. Effectively I’ve been riding a year and a half basically I think I’m trying to say lol

Is there a reason you ride 7 days/week without any designated rest day(s)? Or is ride-every-day your primary goal?

Ride 10 miles everyday was the primary goal before structured training as that is the way I manage to keep at it, I managed 585 days last time I did it a few years ago. I’m autistic so I’m all or nothing it has to be a routine obsession for me to do it or I just won’t bother. A rest day is an extremely easy 10 miles for me since I started structured training to keep the streak alive and therefore my focus. To be honest more recently the 10 mile rides haven’t been as easy as possible as I’m always chasing XSS.

Are you riding a bike for personal fitness goals or preparing for events?

Personal fitness goals, I would try some events if I felt I was strong enough and once I have a better bike.

I’m riding my 16 year old hard tail MTB currently. I did have a carbon drop bar bike but cracked the frame and I don’t intend to buy another until I feel I’m pretty accomplished and I’ve done something impressive on this bike. I feel like I might be almost faster on this 26” knobbly tyre MTB than I was on my road bike 7 years ago I think.

I might struggle with the all out effort it’s hard for me to even do the relatively low amount of mid wattage intervals I’m given currently on XERT seated, I generally have to stand. The long mostly zone 2 year so far has made me lose the higher power stuff probably due to volume and leg fatigue. When I was doing 3 minute power towards the end of last year I could do high/peak way more effectively and much higher numbers, I’m definitely better at zone 2 now though :joy:

Thanks for all the input!

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You are so right about this, I couldn’t perform anywhere close to optimal at the moment.

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This skills wheel on Strava shows the situation well, the dark purple being the end of last year basically and the lighter colour being now.

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The good ol’ spider chart .. something we were the first to show 10 years ago. :smiley:

Interesting to see the comparison as they do with nice colours. Main thing to remember about all other systems is that their charts are based on your mean-maximal power data (MMP), i.e. your best efforts over the period whereas Xert uses what your Fitness Signature suggests you can do. Many never perform all those durations with a fully maximal (well-paced, to failure) so they often underestimate true maximal power. The lighter colour section could just mean you haven’t tried yet. :slight_smile: which by looking at your breakthroughs is apparent.

One other point is to recognize your Signature Decay Method. Using Optimal will have a slight underestimation of your Fitness Signature to provide an opportunity for you to get a breakthrough so what you see as today’s estimate could likely be an underestimate. I’ll be curious to see what you get when you get your next breakthrough. Don’t be surprised if you end up getting more than one. Often athletes will get a breakthrough one day and another a few days later. Depends on athlete and how motivated they are in the end.

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Yeah you’re right about the strava chart the dark colour was when I was doing XFAI 3 minute power so I was doing all out sprints a lot and going pretty hard pushing to level 10 quite a bit on XMB, I had a bit of a glute/hamstring issue which is why I knocked it all off and changed to 10 minute power base build peak to aggravate it less which did work but I haven’t done a proper hard effort really this year so far, its been mostly about me trying to keep up with volume.

I am taking the advice and stepped back from the plan a bit for a few days so I can try the big BT effort in a few days time.

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What a nice cliffhanger. I am looking forward to the results of your next BT. :wink:

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I gave it a go today.

I tried to do the magic buckets way but I didn’t make level 10 I stopped at about 9.5. It was a struggle to level 8 so it didn’t feel like I was quite with it, I haven’t done anything close to this since December intensity wise.

I fitted a new chain and cassette the other day in preparation and its clear that was a mistake as the chain rings are pretty worn and did not like the new chain, its noisy in the middle ring and the big ring throws the chain off when I get around 300w, Im in the process of upgrading the groupset to something modern so I’m going to have to hurry that along. Not an excuse I still managed to do it in the middle ring just about.

I think I may carry on with 3 or 5 minute power instead of 10 for a few weeks and try again.

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When I’m on XATA Continuous and need to take a break, I’ll set Improvement Rate to Off-Season and ignore the Training Pacer and Advisor.
I’ll take a week (or more) off the bike and only ride for fun on days when I feel like it with no particular goal or target in mind.
You might also consider designating a rest day per week.
E.g. if you normally ride long on weekends set Monday to unavailable.
Remember, fitness gains happen during recovery/rest not by riding more. :smiley:

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I hear you but for now a very easy ride is as close to rest day as I’ll get until I break the streak, the issue is if I don’t ride everyday I’ll be constantly looking for excuses not to so everyday takes that decision away because I’m going out like it or not.

It’s tough as well watching the numbers, it took me months to go from 185w to 191w, I have 4 days where I just do an easy 10 and it’s fallen back down to 185w which I don’t understand really, the breakthrough said +7 threshold but I’ve actually lost 6.

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That’s due to the decay rate setting versus amount of Training Load (volume and intensity) since your last signature bump.
To remove that decline do this –

  1. Go to Decay Settings.
  2. Change from Optimal to Small or None.
  3. Select Recalculate from Last BT then Save.

Optimal decay works best when pursuing a goal and making frequent maximal efforts. For example, a rise in TL with harder HIT days during Build and Peak phases during a progression.
Small or None works best when you are just riding for fun or irregularly or during an extended Base period where you won’t test yourself often or at all.

Reference – Signature Decay Method – Xert Breakthrough Training

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There is a lot of good information in this thread, I wanted to join and just say never compare your numbers/body with anyone else. I have been racing for over 22+ years and raced for a US-Conti JR team when I was younger. I have seen everything in my career from a 5+w/kg body to a 2.5w/kg body.

Just enjoy your improvements and process, there is always someone better/faster, but on the flip side there is always someone striving/slower. In the end it doesn’t matter - your not paid for this, your using it for whatever reason you want (fitness, weight control, stress management etc).

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I get what you are saying and appreciate the sentiment, I’m not necessarily trying to compare myself to others as a goal but it is disheartening to me to go super deep and put in all that effort to be at a level most people reach without any effort (seemingly) which just raises the question are my efforts really worth it or should I do something else. I’m about progression and numbers going up so at some point it’s started to feel like I’m not capable of reaching a half decent level in my eyes.

it’s all about improving my strength, doing faster rides, smashing local segments trying to climb the leaderboard for me I’m not competing against anybody in particular. What I really wanted was to get to 250 watts FTP which is an arbitrary number that means something to me for some reason. That’s not gunna happen it seems as it’s way further away than I thought it would be considering the hours I’m putting in. It’s possible I’m just not using Xert correctly though it seems to require a certain level of knowledge to set things up correctly where what I probably need it something that makes the decisions for me that I just follow.

I think exclusively using magic buckets maybe doesn’t help it just gives me 21 second intervals and pure endurance so I never do any longer efforts or anything.

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Sometimes the road up towards being faster seems to take an inordinately long time and you feel like you are not getting anywhere, but then suddenly you realise that actually you have come a long way and are near your target. Happens to me if I’ve had a few months off, but I know that plugging away consistently means I get back to where I want to be. Eventually.

With magic buckets - I’d ignore the recommendations and fill the high and peak as you feel like on the day. Sometimes I will try and fill the buckets on a whole hill/climb and others, when I can’t really be bothered, I do zooms between telegraph poles, starting off with between two and then three and then four if I feel like it and watch the bucket fill. Treat magic bucket filling as a game :). With pure endurance, you know that is anything between recovery to tempo and sweet spot. Once I realised that, my endurance rides became much more varied.

As long as you are riding consistently and you fill your buckets, you should achieve the goals you have set, but use XERT as a guide

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Thank you for your input, what you describe with magic buckets is what I was doing last year when I was doing 3 minute power sometimes I would go from level 0 to 10 in 1 effort, I can nowhere near do that now. It’s not my fitness that’s stops me it’s my legs, I have a few easy days and they feel worse than if I had just carried on grinding I think I might look into getting a sports massage periodically to see if that helps. I tried yesterday and I struggled to hold over 300 watts and I’m definitely stronger than that.

I’ve had a couple slop weeks where I haven’t consistently done anything structured mostly just 10 miles rides with no efforts. Monday is a bank holiday so I’m going to start something new going forward from then, not sure how I should specifically set it up with focus etc but I’ll probably do continuous.

Thanks

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Sounds less like a training issue but more like an issue with health or nutrition. You ride every day for a year and do not improve at all? Sounds like bonk ride every day. Are you underfed? Do you eat/drink enough carbs while riding and after?

Unless you reduced training compared to other sports you did in your life before, this does not make sense.