I would like to use Zwift Cog and Click with Xert. I know that I can use the Cog in ERG mode, but any other modes don’t give me any shifting options AFAICT.
QZ Fitness has figured out a way to integrate with the Zwift Click, so it seems like it should be possible to Xert: [search Google for “Revolutionizing Indoor Cycling: QZ App’s Integration with Zwift Click”], the forum won’t let me post a link.
I use the Hammerhead app, but I’d switch to iOS or even buy a Garmin if that’s what it took to make this work.
You need to connect your devices to Zwift on your computer using Bluetooth, this will allow you to use the shifting. You then need to connect Xert to the trainer using ANT+. No idea how this works on a Hammerhead, I use the phone app with a USB-C Hub and and ANT+ Dongle on Android (you just need to install an app to get ANT+ connectivity). You can then get realtime data and record the ride using the Xert App.
I’m trying to avoid Zwift. I don’t like the video game thing, I don’t want to set up two workout tracking apps, and I don’t want to pay for two things when I find no value in Zwift.
I just want to use mixedmode (and slope) workouts without having to shift with my bike’s gears. Ideally I’d be able to use the Zwift Ride Frame with Xert on all modes. It sounds like I’ll have to wait for the Elite Square.
I don’t think you can. I remember watching some videos before buying the cog that it was specific to Zwift. You can use it on other apps but only in erg mode, I belive.
I use what Nipheon said to do workouts inside group rides for example.
Unfortunately that is not possible at the moment because they use a proprietary Zwift protocol. So unless someone reverse engineer that or Zwift is opening up you are out of luck.
I have a cog + click with a Hammer (Saris) H3. I normally ride ERG workouts so it’s good, but just found that the other software I regularly use, icTrainer.de, has implemented virtual shifting, so I can ride their courses in SIM mode. They also can connect to Xert and download workouts/upload results.
This is something I’m interested in as well. I don’t like Zwift but I like the idea of their cog+click and not having to put a cassette on my trainer. Also, having the ability to use the virtual shift button would allow for better control when intervals change quickly. I use the Xert EBC app to do almost all my indoor structured workouts.
The QZ app (qdomyos-zwift) mentioned in the original post may work - it connects to trainer (and other devices including click) and simulates Wahoo direct connect protocol - although I am not sure if Xert EC support it (but most other apps do).
I haven’t tried this my self though - I don’t like QZ’s UI.
Cool idea but it’s not going to happen unless it becomes an open standard. That’s up to Zwift and the industry-at-large.
DCRainmaker –
One shouldn’t overlook the fact that Garmin has held back on doing Zwift Cog/Click. My discussions indicate they are keenly aware that if they were to jump into that arena, without protocol openness, it’d pretty much kill off the rest of the indoor trainer apps within 1-2 years.
Long story short, as with before, the main benefit of COG+CLICK is really multi-bike scenarios for consumers. And for Zwift/trainer companies, it’s the ability to only have to stock a single casette type, rather than a multitude of cassettes (some of which cost a heck of a lot more than the cost of a Zwift Cog).
As another Zwift Cog and Click user, I’m looking for solutions to using virtual shifting with Xert workout players, particularly to do SMART workouts. Rouvy and other apps have figured out how to use the Click to adjust resistance in slope modes, so it’s definitely possible for any app to support it.
The cog and click are becoming more and more popular and trainers like the JetBlack Victory come with it pre installed, for good reasons.
Would love to be able to do smart workouts indoors. Ideally, I’d like to do a ride in Rouvy to replicate the outdoor riding experience, including shifting, and have an Xert workout player, either on my phone, Karoo, or computer dictate and record the workout.
Hello everyone! New to Xert and ended up here as I’m trying do the same thing as the original poster and Jesse above me. Any updates as of 2025? @ManofSteele@xertedbrain
I have a Tacx Neo 3M, Zwift Cog and Click + Karoo 3.
Any way for me to complete MIXED MODE workouts without taking off the Zwift Cog and putting on a cassette?
Also, is my assumption correct that SMART workouts are ERG mode only? So the Zwift Cog works?
I’m also assuming that SMART workouts completed within Zwift are static but when completed via pairing my phone (Xert iOS app) to the trainer for resistance control, that would actually be dynamic and “SMART”.
I actually just ordered a Click/Cog V2 recently to experiment with my Neo 2T. I’ve had some success using Virtual Shifting for riding in Zwift & using Magic Buckets, but I opted not to install the Zwift Cog yet. Since I have a permanent/indoor bike for the trainer, I don’t really need the single cog anyways, so I left my 11sp cassette on, which means I have the option to do Mixed Mode workouts with physical gears using the Xert EBC apps.
I’ve been meaning to get a ‘how to’ combine Magic Buckets, SMART workouts, etc. with various indoor apps/platforms. I’ll get my initial thoughts put down & shared so others can begin experimenting and see what works best for their needs & interests. There are many different ways to use Xert, so you’re likely to find some solution that works best for your needs.
I also have a single cog / click on my trainer. I probably do 95% of indoor workouts just fine, but I do wish that virtual shifting via the click hardware were an option. Even if virtual shifting were available as buttons inside the EBC app, I think it would be too cumbersome for me to use for slope mode workouts.
I’ve done a couple mixed mode workouts and completed them. I’m just stuck in whatever power setting ERG mode was last in for the slope interval and then it goes back to ERG mode. Since the slope intervals are generally supposed to be max effort go as hard as you can, the power is lower than what I’d be able to do if I could change gears. So you’ll miss out on possible peak power breakthroughs and would have to rely on something like a virtual Zwift ride to set those. I don’t know if Xert interprets these “under performing” intervals in other ways as well.
Full slope mode workouts (like the fitness tests) are basically just not an option with a single cog and no virtual shifting available.
SMART workouts are (almost?) all in ERG mode. There might be one or two that have a single slope interval in them (to reduce MPA and get you tired before the real intervals), but you can still do the workouts without issue. I’ve never had any problem running a SMART workout with a single cog.
Yes, you are correct that if a SMART workout is imported to Zwift and controlled by Zwift (or any other non-Xert platform) that the “SMART” features of the workout are lost (variable power and/or duration based on performance during the workout, and smooth curve power ramps). I started out doing SMART workouts in Zwift and Rouvy, and now just use the Xert player & EBC app. To be honest, I’ve never noticed any significant difference between a SMART workout performed on or off Xert, and I don’t ever notice any variability during SMART workouts using the EBC app. You need to dig into the workout designer to figure out what type of SMART features a workout is using unless it states it up front in the description. I can’t recall any interval power readings ever being more than 1 or 2 watts different from the workout’s structure unless I caused them to move by a sudden increase or decrease in my intensity. I’ve never seen an interval duration differ from the workout’s structure. It’s possible this is maybe because the workouts chosen / prescribed closely match my fitness signature and training plan, and others might have different experiences. In any case, just ride in whatever virtual environment you like best.
You can also control the workout (power) from the EBC app, but record the workout (read the power) from Zwift. You don’t get the fancy UI integration from within Zwift like the interval rings and HUD, but it would enable the SMART features of the workout in the EBC app. When you open up Zwift, you just need to decouple “trainer control” but leave everything else connected; and in the EBC app ensure “trainer control” is enabled but nothing else.
I’ve been playing around with the BikeControl (formerly SwiftControl) application on both PC and mobile to enable the use of Zwift Click hardware to control virtual shifting in other apps, although I haven’t tried it with EBC on the bike yet. (For anyone just wanting to test the app, you can download .zip, apk, etc directly from the app’s GitHub repository and manually install them, as well as purchase automatically installable versions through different app stores.)
My thought was that when doing a mixed mode workout in EBC to adjust the slope manually in the app to get the effect of virtual shifting, and use a third party interface like BikeControl to tie the Zwift Click to the EBC button presses.
However from some quick testing with EBC, it seems like slope cannot be changed from the auto setting in a mixed mode workout. So using auto mode, a workout starts in ERG mode @ 100%, then changes to slope mode @ the slope defined in the workout file. But pressing the +/- buttons does not change the slope, but instead continue to change the % difficulty. It is possible to change the mode from auto to slope during the interval, and then the +/- buttons will change the slope.
Slope I think defaults to 0% unless you have previously adjusted it, so if wanting to use it manually during a mixed mode workout you would need to ensure it was set to a % matching the workout file or some other positive value that would be a good starting point for a sprint.
Question 1: How does changing the slope (and % difficulty) in a mixed mode workout affect Xert’s interpretation of the work being performed during an all-out interval?
Question 2: To get the effect of virtual shifting in a mixed mode workout, would it be better to adjust the slope or the % difficulty?
Further comments and possible Feature Request:
The +/- buttons are kind of sluggish to respond and can’t be clicked in rapid succession. This makes it tricky to change the values appropriately when you’re trying to hit a 10 second sprint.
Can Xert make some changes to the EBC app to better accommodate single cog / virtual shifters? Depending on the answers to Qs 1 & 2, some options could be:
Simply making the +/- buttons more responsive
Allowing slope to be adjustable via the +/- buttons in auto mode when auto is implementing a mixed mode slope interval
Adding a toggle setting for allowing / implementing / mimicking virtual shifting using the +/- buttons combined with other EBC changes (possibly a new increment scale for adjusting % difficulty or the trainer resistance?)
Or of course, implementing some kind of full, separate, new virtual shifting feature
While using buttons in the EBC app to virtually shift gears is cumbersome in my opinion, it would at least provide the ability for virtual gear changes and allow for the use of third part apps like Bike/SwiftControl, QZ, and whatever else might be out there.
Thanks for listening. I really think there is some intermediate level of single cog / virtual shifting compatibility that can be implemented without Xert having to make direct BT connections to other companies hardware. Also, FWIW, the BikeControl developer has proposed and made an open protocol in an attempt to standardize communication between hardware and trainer apps, although no one has used it yet aside from him. https://openbikecontrol.org/
Thanks for sharing all this, including the Github depository. I will be passing this along and perhaps we can do some more internal testing on our end.
This should work if you put the app/trainer into SLOPE immediately after starting. Obviously you wouldn’t get ERG for the previous sections, but should give you the ability to virtually shift via another app in the meantime.
Xert only cares about the power produced. Doesn’t matter if the trainer was controlling the power or whether you were at 0% slope or 2% slope. However, if you’ve ridden a bike, you also know about the impact of flywheel speed (inertia) and torque, which are both impacted by which gear you’re in & the slope setting of your trainer..
I think for now, the best option would be to do the entire workout in SLOPE mode (pick ~0.5% slope or so) and then use virtual gears to follow along the targets. This is effectively what I’ve done by pushing some workouts to Zwift and then disabling ERG to use virtual gearing to follow along the workout.
I can appreciate that - we’ll see what we can do. Some trainers are also more responsive than others, which might also be a factor.
We’ll take a look at the links you’ve provided and see what we can achieve to make single gear bike/trainers more compatible with our SMART & Mixed Mode workouts.
I am also very interested in the possibility to use my Zwift Ride’s virtual shifting in mixed mode workouts.
I run the resistance from the EBC App and disconnected it in Zwift to use the SMART workouts.
Unfortunately, Slope Mode intervals are not controllable.
I guess I will simply push these Mixed Mode Workouts to Zwift and sacrifice the SMART option.
A possibility to control resistance with the zwift Ride in the EBC app would be apreciated, but I am aware Zwift has their own protocols, which they do not like to share.
And as I learned just aminute ago, I will have to remmber to deactivate ERG Mode before the slope mode sectionsd
New Zwift Ride w/Kickr Core 2, and COG, owner. Not new to Xert, going on 10 months now, but spent all year mostly outside using Magic Buckets.
Anyway, I feel like I am reading I can do a X Smart Workout just using the EBC.I likely would just double record with a Garmin (indoor free ride) to get the ride stats into Connect.
Am I correct that the Smart workout will function properly, just using ERG essentially, and no need for virtual shifting?
Afternoon suffering incoming if so.. SMART - Valley of the Damned !
Yes, that’s correct. The only workouts that would be troublesome are those with the #MIXEDMODE tag or other labels / descriptions indicating they should be used with slope mode like breakthrough tests.
SMART - Valley of the Damned looks like 100% ERG mode compatible.
You can still run mixed mode workouts 100% in ERG mode, but you might spin out during the all-out sprint intervals unless you try the slope adjustment methods discussed in the previous posts.
So definitely get your workout on. If you have a second screen to run the Xert web player, you can see more data at one time, but the EBC app alone is still good.
