I have been using Xert for 2-3 weeks. Before that I had been using Trainer Road over the winter, which estimated my FTP at 195-200W. The TR workouts were consistently challenging but doable. Then I decided to try Xert because of Magic Buckets.
After importing my workouts from Strava into Xert (over a year of workouts), Xert set my TP at 165 or so. Then after a few outside rides with all out sprints Xert bumped my TP to 218. It seems to be eay too high. Now I keep failing Xert workouts on the trainer. âRadar Loveâ felt impossibly hard, I failed it. Yesterday I did âNo time to cryâ, which was supposed to be 2,5 dots aerobic, but it felt like hard threshold work, I had to make a pause midway, otherwise I would not finish it.
I have XATA continuous plan. My progression rate is set to Moderate 1, my recovery demands and xss/h are set to default. Polarization is set a bit to the left, as recommended in one of Xert podcasts (but it seems that this slider does not affect the recommended workouts in my case anyway).
What should I do?
For now I flagged the two sprint workouts, which bumped my TP to 217. That lowered my TP to 203. My plan is to do an indoor Xert Fitness Test and verify my TP that way.
But I am kind of disappointed, I was hoping that Xert would determine the signature automatically without having to do FTP tests - that seems to be the Xert promise.
Xert is known to over estimate TP if you perform a sprint that abruptly stops. A better way to get a valid breakthrough in regard to TP is to draw MPA down to your TP value and hold it as long as you can. âXert Fitness Test for Breakthroughâ workout is an example of this.
Thanks! I have a Wahoo Trainer with only one gear, the Zwift Cog. So in practice I can only do Xert EBC rides in Auto/ERG mode. Once I start failing an interval, the ERG death spiral starts, so dropping to TP is not really an option. Any suggestions how to handle this?
Also, what I donât really understand - one of Xertâs big selling points is that its fitness signature consists of 3 values, the TP, HIE and PP. Which in theory is more accurate/informative than having just FTP. So my intuition would be that if I do an all-out sprint and hit a PP breakthrough, then my PP is increased, HIE maybe too, but TP should basically stay the same - that sounds like the natural benefit of having 3 separate signatures. But if my PP increase automatically increases my TP to an unrealistic level, then the whole point of having 3 separate signatures for 3 separate types of effort seems lost to me. Iâm sure there is advanced math and modelling behind all that, but at the end of the day all I really care about is having a system that recommends me workouts with proper difficulty and that seems to be less straightforward with Xert than with Trainer Road.
Post a link to one or both of those workouts so we can see what the failure points look like
(View activity details, select Share, set to Public, and copy the url.)
No formal FTP tests are required for Xert.
A few 10 sec sprints now and then plus occasional maximal efforts under fatigue should suffice (anywhere along your power curve).
You can manually tweak your TP if necessary and set decay to Small or No Decay.
To do that view last activity, edit signature below chart, and Save (lock).
Once signature is dialed in changes to TP will occur based on TL alone. No BTs required although most users will attempt BTs when the opportunity arises. Other users will ride for months without a BT.
Do you plan to utilize Magic Buckets outdoors?
Itâs impossible to fail target goals on Magic Buckets since the app adjusts based on your execution. You control the difficulty level and recovery duration between intervals.
Do you still have a cassette available for your trainer?
I donât have any experience with a Cog, but it sounds like you can use one in combination with Zwift to effectively ride Mixed Mode workouts with virtual shifting.
See these related posts â Search results for âzwift cogâ - Xert Community Forum
Post a link to one or both of those workouts so we can see what the failure points look like
(View activity details, select Share, set to Public, and copy the url.)
Here are both the rides â they are currently flagged.
No formal FTP tests are required for Xert.
A few 10 sec sprints now and then plus occasional maximal efforts under fatigue should suffice (anywhere along your power curve).
Thatâs more or less what I was trying to do with these rides, to help Xert calibrate my fitness signature.
There is a relationship between PP, HIE, and TP.
I understand that, but Iâm not sure this is helpful in my case. It seems like this relationship is what is getting me into trouble in the first place - my understanding is that my sprints increased my PP, and my PP in turn increased the TP to an unrealistic level. But I might be wrong.
Thank you, I have read that. It basically confirms that the power signature detected by Xert can be wrong â it seems to be my case. But Iâm not sure what to do about it (other than to do a fitness test, like I described.)
You can manually tweak your TP if necessary and set decay to Small or No Decay.
To do that view last activity, edit signature below chart, and Save (lock).
Decay does not seem to be a problem â the TP is too high, not too low. Setting TP manually⌠I donât know, sort of defeats the purpose of having Xert as a reliable fitness platform. I was hoping Xert would do the thinking for me, not the other way around.
Once signature is dialed in changes to TP will occur based on TL alone. No BTs required although most users will attempt BTs when the opportunity arises. Other users will ride for months without a BT.*
Ok, but I canât finish workouts with TP at 217.
Do you plan to utilize Magic Buckets outdoors?
Yes, I plan and have used both Magic Buckets outdoors and Xert EBC indoors.
Itâs impossible to fail target goals on Magic Buckets since the app adjusts based on your execution. You can control the difficulty level and recovery duration between intervals.*
My failed workouts were on Xert EBC, on an indoor trainer. These were workouts recommended by Xert based on the inflated TP signature.
Do you still have a cassette available for your trainer?
No, I never had one, my Wahoo trainer came with the Smart Cog.
I donât have any experience with a Cog, but it sounds like you can use one in combination with Zwift to effectively ride Mixed Mode workouts with virtual shifting.
See these related posts â Search results for âzwift cogâ - Xert Community Forum
There is nothing wrong with manually tweaking a signature to establish a reference point in time and move forward from there.
The ability to do so â and play what-if scenarios â is an inherent feature of Xert.
I meant send links to the two indoor workouts (Radar Love and No Time to Cry).
The first ride link (Random Xert) demonstrates TP is too low since Difficulty Score (DS) rose above 200 and multiple BTs were detected (yellow lines).
The second ride shows an abrupt stop at the BT detection point which is a common reason to flag an activity that bumps TP unrealistically. Flagging is also an inherent feature in Xert. Another arrow in Xertâs quiver.
Xert works best as an interactive platform. That doesnât mean you canât set it and forget it but if you want the best results you should plan to âadvise the advisorâ whenever the need arrives.
You are learning how to self-coach and determining what works best for you.
Hereâs your first what-if experiment â
Go to the âRandom Xertâ activity, bump TP by 2-3 pts below the chart, and hit Refresh.
That should normalize the Difficulty Score (shaded portion of chart) and reduct the BT detection segments.
E.g. does TP set to 203 or thereabouts lower DS to a max of 150 on the chart?
Save the value youâd like to use as a reference point moving forward.
Keep in mind TP is not meant to match FTP as they arenât derived in the same manner.
Iâll try with the experiments you suggested, thank you.
âTP is not meant to match FTP as they arenât derived in the same mannerâ - Sure, but as long as TP is used to scale my workout difficulty, it needs to be correct, whatever that means.
I guess Iâm more of a âset it and forget itâ kind of user, maybe thatâs why I get frustrated by these issues.
Anyway, what would be the easiest way forward for me, to get to a reasonable fitness signature, and keep using Xert without big hiccups?
Regarding fitness test with with only one gear (Zwift Cog) - I donât have Zwift or Rouvy subscription. If I need to subscribe to one of these services just to be able to do fitness tests for Xert, it gets a bit expensive.
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