“What's my ftp” TP vs Xert TP

Did a ride the other day and I got a pretty big discrepancy between the two values. What’s my ftp came back at 307 while the Xert analytics returned 279 (a 10% difference). The fitness signature for the ride : PP 1459, HIE 32.7, TP 279.
I assumed the ‘what’s my ftp’ app uses a more generic power distribution between the different systems (PP,HIE,TP) and that is what is causing the difference… But I’d like to know what someone with good understanding of Xert platform would take away from this (to better train, to better understand the athlete, etc).

One of the recommendations is to do a peak power effort first before you attempt a to get an FTP value with the app. Since your PP is almost 1500, it will create quite a large variance. Next time, try and push out something near 1400 if you can, and then monitor WMFTP.

To follow up on this line of questioning (I didn’t want to ask a question that had been answered already):

Over the last couple of weeks my TP has been declining. (On Feb 2nd Xert had me at 242… it is now 228.) Part of that is I’ve been sick twice over a two week period, which confirmed my suspicion that I was burned out coming into to using Xert. And so I haven’t been able to get on the bike that much, aside from a couple of group rides and an e-Fondo. However, today I decided to do an FTP test, and despite the fact that it was measured at 241, my TP on Xert declined, yet again, to where it now sits at 228.

I’m not too bothered by it, at my age and very modest fitness, I’m not exactly KOM hunting. But I am curious as I try to understand the value of Xert, as I am weighing whether or not to renew for another month. I probably will, in hopes that my body will recover to the point where I can train more consistently, and get a more dialled signature etc… however, the other part of me wonders why not just do a couple of HIIT workouts a week on RGT or Zwift, and go for chill rides 3 other days of the week, and whatever fitness that yields is what it yields. I mean I know I haven’t been feeling great for the last two weeks, but when your TP goes from 242 to 228 and you’re pretty sure it is probably still around 242, it’s kind of discouraging.

At times, tools like Xert really seem to be more for competitive athletes, who are looking for real time feedback, and targeted work for specific improvements.

Thanks in advance for any feedback. It is appreciated. Yup, you too, RidgeRider. :wink:

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The OP on this thread was asking about the difference between the What’s My FTP app for Garmin Connect IQ versus the TP calculation on XO. Here’s the explanation for that –
Difference ‘What’s my ftp?’ and calculated ftp Xert. - Support - Xert Community Forum (xertonline.com)

As to your TP decline first know that TP in Xert isn’t necessarily FTP as calculated by taking a traditional FTP test (RAMP, 20 min or 2x8).
Did you do a traditional FTP test or a BT (breakthrough) workout from the library?
BT workouts are much easier than a RAMP test but they will challenge you when done correctly (takes some practice).
Xert is looking for how well you perform especially when fatigued and measures several points along your power curve. The TP calculation is relational and factors in your PP (Peak Power) and HIE (High Intensity Energy).

TP is also susceptible to decay based on a setting which is normally set to Optimal. See Account Settings, Profile, and click on the ? icon for Decay Method for the explanation.
No activity for days plus little activity consisting of BT events will accelerate that decay.

Your approach is certainly viable if that is what you prefer to do (HIITx2 + low intensity rides indoors or out, Zwift, etc.).
You can use the analytics in Xert to monitor your fitness and set the TED (target event date) in the past. Then recommended workouts will include a variety within your selected focus duration (Athlete type) without phased progression. You can also select a different athlete type using the Filter option for even more variety.

You can manually set your signature values if you feel the numbers are off currently and you are not up to the task of more testing. Plus you can enable No Decay during your float period. Remember to turn it back to Optimal when you can challenge yourself more often.

There’s lot of different ways to use Xert and the flexibility takes some getting used to coming from select-a-plan platforms.
I am recreational rider as well but I like to get fit by mid-summer to handle long rides at a reasonable pace (for me) and shorter rides that may include some hammering, a personal KOM on occasion (for kicks), or hanging in with a passing A/B group for a few minutes. :slight_smile:

Regarding targeted improvements you can select Ranking and view your spider chart to see where you are weakest. Mine looks like a starfish with limbs lost to the sea especially the northwest quadrant. While I could select a type such as TT to work on that weakness I’m just not interested. I’d rather stick with what I am better at than struggle with what I’m not. Cyclists who are competing would want to work on weaknesses to round out their charts. YMMV

Key point here is as @ridgerider2 mentions - signature decay. In the default setting, Xert reduces your signature faster than reality, to make it easier to get a breakthrough (and more accurate signature going forward / keep it fresh) in future rides. You can try ‘no decay’ if not doing hard efforts very often, so that your signature moves in line with the amount of training you do (plus updates if you get a BT, but they’re harder to get!). That’s what many do over winter or during base training.

And an FTP test in the traditional sense may not give a breakthrough, hence it didn’t change from 228. Worth searching the forum for tips on getting a breakthrough.

Hope you are recovered soon!


Thanks, guys, for the advice about “no decay”. For awhile there I was doing a few lower intensity rides because I knew I was tired and my base wasn’t (isn’t) adequately built up, which explains the decay.

It was a traditional FTP Test I did today (old school, not ramp), and I did record a “near breakthrough” on the 5 minute portion, but again, I wasn’t so much concerned about getting a breakthrough (also my stomach wasn’t happy having eaten to close to the test), but I was surprised that it didn’t kick my TP back up to what it had been on Xert a month earlier (242), considering that at that time my standard FTP was only 235. So since then my FTP has gone from 235 to 241 while during the same time frame my Xert TP went from 242 to 228.

Anyways, no worries, like I said, I’m not too obsessed with the numbers, just curious. And yeah, hopefully no more rundown colds.

Just for kicks, I dropped my HIE down two points, and that put my ride during the FTP test inline with how I felt during it. I think it also puts my HIE more in line with my PP on the chart thing that I couldn’t find again (to confirm) on the other website.

Seriously guys, make these charts available via the dashboard. It’s bizarre to me how poor you are making things easier to understand or more accessible. If you want to compete with the big boys you need to hire a communication consultant! Or maybe this is just personal PhD project and you don’t have investors or care whether Xert becomes really popular?



I think maybe the ‘no decay’ setting should be recommended for recreational riders (default if TL < 2 stars?).

I was pretty frustrated on ‘optimal’ and Xert always nagging me about breakthroughs that I didn’t want to do every few weeks because they take a lot out of me and hinder my normal training.
If you have a 3 star training load ‘optimal’ might work fine and the signature is more accurate with BTs every few weeks. Simply because the BT workouts are closer to your normal high effort workouts than if you are at 1 or 2 stars. I don’t think “A Pain That I’m Used To” is a good idea for me at TL 34. With a 1 star TL going all out so often is more of a challenge than you might really need or want at that level.
The competitive attitude some may have that others don’t is another factor.

I think Xert (the system and the ideas) works for everyone but it is originally set up for 3 and above star riders who race.

I think the ‘no decay’ tracks pretty well. If I do go all out (or close to) I’m usually close to BT or a small BT and I’ve read similar observations from others here. Way better than the huge decay when on ‘optimal’ with only a few rides a week and no regular breakthroughs. If your signature is too far off, the BT workouts sometimes don’t really work and if you make them work you end up with too much time above MPA for the system to interpret correctly. Once you have something almost correct it fine tunes very well but you need to start with a reasonable approximation of your fitness signature or it might get off track.

I’m still not entirely sure mine is correct, I have a pretty high HIE usually but that at least correlates to how I feel. I’ve always been the short effort (a few minutes) kinda person. I have no long time endurance (>30min) to speak of and my PP is probably lower than it should due to technical difficulty in actually reaching it. I can’t spin fast while standing, my legs don’t do that :frowning:
The ranking shows me around 25% of my gender overall, 20% on the long end and 30% on the fast with dips everywhere mass is a factor since I’m apparently too heavy for a rider (BMI 24) :wink:

I plan to stick to ‘no decay’ and be happy if I get a BT or almost BT every now and then to affirm the values are more or less correct. As long as the workouts feel good I’m happy. I’m here for fun, not for winning races.


I think that can work if your signature is dialed, but doing that as default all new users may not work… they could draw more attention to it though, and more clearly recommend it during base phase…

I’ll probably leave it on no decay during build as well - like you, my workouts don’t bring me that close to MPA and it takes a while to recover from a hard BT effort, so also don’t plan to do them that often.

One could argue having the option is a plus point for Xert, but it does also cause a lot of questions

Here’s that pesky chart you are looking for –
Are there errors in my Fitness Signature? – Xert (baronbiosys.com)
Yes, I have to search for it each time too. :slight_smile:
Perhaps there could be a label on XO home page near the signature numbers –
“Fitness Signature (?)”
When you tap on the ? it goes to that article or one that explains even more.

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Yeah, you articulate well my approach.

I’m still trying to find a balance between my innate competitive nature, and the reality that I am a middle-aged man that simply doesn’t have the time to train alot, and isn’t ever going to be winning any races.

So I’m trying to find a balance between slow improvement (motivating), fitness (improved energy levels), and fun (group rides or semi-competitive races). The vanity factor exists too… sigh.

So far I like the workouts and flexibility Xert offers, the technical information to wonder at and noodle around with, the forum community, and reasonable price point.

It’s still the only platform I’m paying for right now. All the others I’ve either had free trial periods or promotional offers, or used RGT free for racing/group rides. RGT is slowly building race options, and so occasionally there are others in races or rides that are at my fitness levels. However, the bulk of racers on that platform just leave me in the dust at the starting line, and so I’ve often found myself riding on my own, which kind of defeats the purpose of a race. But it’s growing fairly quickly. And I prefer the drafting dynamics to the weird Zwift sticky draft that softens everything up. Still curious what Peloton will be like when finally available.

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We often refer to the 3 principles of Xert: Discover, Improve, Perform. I think regardless of whether athletes are ‘competitive’ or not doesn’t affect whether they can/should use Xert.

Xert can be used by athletes to ‘Discover’ their fitness - what is there Threshold Power, HIE, & Peak Power? Or, from a ride to ride standpoint - why did I crack on that Zwift ride? Xert starts helping users understand their own fitness, as well as where their limitations are.

We can also help users ‘Improve’ their fitness through the use of Xert Adaptive Training Advisor, recommended workouts, improvement rates, etc.

And finally, we can help users ‘Perform’ with real-time feedback of MPA, TTE, etc…

Sounds cheesy, but I think it’s very true! :slight_smile: