# This breakthrough lowered my tp?

I feel like if i do an equivalent power (272) for an hour that is higher than my TP (268) that should be impossible… either the tp is higher or the equivalent power should be lower… equivalent power means that the effort was the same as if i did a constant power output of 272w for the entire ride…

Yet somehow the algorithms decided that this was a TP/HIE fake through and a slight elevation of my pp thus giving it a bronze BT

I guess there’s a disconnect that I’m not understanding…
This ride has a difficulty score of 207 (5 diamonds)…
I’m a two star athlete (which means my training load is between 50 and 75) so i get recommended by xata to do 2 diamond workouts. Correct me if I’m wrong, but a two diamond workout has a difficulty score of 50-75… it seems to be arbitrary and perhaps even a bad recursive logic to equate difficulty score with training load.

I say recursive logic because as the TL goes up, the FS improves. and as a result of the higher FS, you have to do more watts and kJ with to get the same difficulty score. A five star athlete shouldn’t need to constantly do rides with a difficulty score >=150 due to my assumption that the difficulty score goes down as the FS goes up given the same exact power and duration workout.

Finally it feels like bad logic because it’s clearly not impossible for a two star athlete to do a five diamond workout… sooo, why tell the athletes to limit themselves? Did i do something bad for training by choosing to do an all out crit simulation ride?

Perhaps this is where a hardness logic would help… if athlete’s did hardness test, they could use that to try to judge what would be too much or too little… rather than diamond workout ratings

It is perhaps a little interesting that the power shows this point where my mpa stopped going down and started steadily increasing… the period where it was going down the equiv power was a little above my tp and during the period where it was going back up, it was just below my tp… i don’t remember having physical control over this only to say that perhaps i became mentally distracted when the kids started coming out to play and i was concerned about the increased probability to have some kind of accident.

Hi @isaac124 ,

Good topic here! I’ll throw my thoughts in, but certainly hope others can also pitch in…

How much of a change in TP/HIE are we talking? A few watts or kJ’s likely wont make a substantial difference in daily training (e.g. 5W change w/ 268 W TP is 1.8% change - equivalent to the error margin of most PM’s).

While you’re correct that athletes will need to do more work to accumulate a similar amount of XSS, I wanted to point out that XSS and DS are always relative to the individual… they are not fixed to absolute power values. For example, MVDP and I can both complete a Ronnestad workout and both of us can generate equivalent values of XSS and Difficulty Score despite him producing (probably) double the power as me. It’s still a 5-diamond rating for us both, its just that his 5-diamond rating takes a lot more power than my 5-star rating.

It’s certainly possible for lower-star rated athletes to achieve higher difficulty scores. And lower star athletes always can select more challenging workouts, either manually or by sliding the FF slider to the right. In most scenarios, our rule of thumb where recommended workouts have a difficulty rating approximately equal to an athlete’s star rating works pretty well… or at least better than recommending hard workouts that may cause a user to adjust down or completely abandon.

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at least better than recommending hard workouts that may cause a user to adjust down or completely abandon.

Yeah that does make sense to be conservative when the athlete is trying to self coach… and a bad workout or bad week may cause them to abandon completely…

All about trying to find that magical minimum effective dose right? While at the same time not having very much data to go on in terms of determining the athlete’s level of training readiness might be…

How much of a change in TP/HIE are we talking?

Only 2w lower tp and 0.1kJ lower hie… just figured if anything it would be a increased tp to match the equivalent power… but yeah it is all pretty much inside the pm margin… 5 w differences are meaningless as they say

More of a signature fine-tuning than a ‘breakthrough’ But if you were close to the limit right at the end of that simulated crit, then regardless which signature we use, the system did a decent job of modeling your MPA!

Good stuff… 5-diamond difficulty hurts!