Tacx Neo 2t + Edge 1040 + Xert Workout player

[DaRon (Ronald Nachbargauer)]

Hi Community,

I have a weird problem, and I hope you have some answers
My Setup:

• Taxc Neo 2T (FW:0.0.38) + Garmin Edge 1040 (FW: 15.23) + Xert Player (most recent from IQ Store).
• Power Sensor + HR sensor is paired
• Tacx is paired via “Xert Player” - “Select” → ANT+ ID from Tacx
• GPS is OFF (on Edge itself AND Xert Player)
• Power Match is ON

Since a few sessions, the speed (and therefore distance as well) will not be picked up after ~5-10mins in the trainig.
NOTE: Screenshots are taken from Garmin Connect as one can see the drop-outs more clearly (data is missing in Xert as well - so, no “transfer” problem)

As you can see here: the speed + distance a totally mess and even though the GPS is OFF in either setting, it seems like, the GPS from the device “takes over control” of speed and distance (i even have the Map available - it looks like i go back and forth on the very same place (like no GPS fix)
So, its not like, that the speed is not recorded at all…it only stops after a few minutes.

Crosschecks:

• Tacx with Taxc App on both Android and Win10 → works
• Tacx with Edge 1040 - Indoor profile (no GPS) → works
• Tacx with Fenix 6X - Indoor profile (no GPS) → works

Other tasks:

• deleted the IQ App from Edge, reboot Edge (just in case), re-installed IQ App → no luck
• removed all sensors (HR and Power), only selected in Xert Player → no luck

Is there anything which i might do wrong?
Anything else i could try?

thank you so much in advance,
Ron

PS:
Edit 1: typos
Edit 2: added the note
Edit 3: did some more testing, this time with Edge GPS enabled / Xert Player GPS OFF → even weirder

first of all: it starts to record only after ~30s, but again: after ~7mins you can see the speed drop

[ridgerider2]

Not sure this will help but these instructions mention pairing trainer under Garmin settings for your Indoor profile, not the IQ app.
What’s New in the Xert Workout Player for Garmin Version 2.0 – Xert (baronbiosys.com)

[DaRon (Ronald Nachbargauer)]

Hi,

thanks for your help.

so…re-read and double checked again.
on the page you linked one can clearly read:

“Note that if your smart trainer is configured as a sensor in the Garmin sensors menu, it will not be possible to use Powermatch.”

and

“To enable Powermatch if you have a separate/onboard power meter:
In order to use Powermatch you will need to remove your smart trainer from the sensors menu on your Garmin, and configure it in the Xert Workout Player app.”

its not possible to select the trainer in Xert App once paired and enabled in Egde sensors.
note: even if the Smart trainer is the only sensor paired, i cannot select it in the Xert App. So it seems, that the smart trainer must not paired (or beeing disabled) via Edge at all.

What i do not understand:
If the trainer is paired via Edge, i cannot select it in the Xert App anymore → no speed /distance at all → that makes sense: no sensor, no data

If i disable the Tacx in the Edge sensors, i can select it in Xert App, do get speed /distance, although for ~7mins only.
Why does it switch to GPS (obviously)?

Thank you very much.
Ron
EDIT: typos, new tests, text formated

[wescaine (Wesley Caine)]

@DaRon

“Note that if your smart trainer is configured as a sensor in the Garmin sensors menu, it will not be possible to use Powermatch.”

and

“To enable Powermatch if you have a separate/onboard power meter:
In order to use Powermatch you will need to remove your smart trainer from the sensors menu on your Garmin, and configure it in the Xert Workout Player app.”

Am not sure I follow your set up fully, but you don’t need powermatch if you don’t have a separate powermeter. Powermatch is reading power from powermeter and using that to adjust resistance for your indoor trainer. My understanding is that you only have the indoor trainer so you want to follow the first option from the link @ridgerider2 shared (To configure your smart trainer if you do not have a separate/onboard power meter)

You also don’t need to pair the trainer as a powermeter - just pair it as an indoor trainer, like the instructions say. Hope that works…

[DaRon (Ronald Nachbargauer)]

Hi again,

Thanks wescain and ridgerider2…

OK: powermatch settings is understood. Thx
But i cannot make it work as the manual says. Once i pair the Tacx as trainer, I cannot use it in the Xert App anymore. There is no power, no speed and therefore no distance.
I mentioned that here

@DaRon

note: even if the Smart trainer is the only sensor paired, i cannot select it in the Xert App. So it seems, that the smart trainer must not paired (or beeing disabled) via Edge at all.

This morning, I had another idea and so i compared the .FTI files of an activity which is fine and one which is messed up.

Good:
In the file from Dec. 5th:

I can find coordinates (even though GPS is OFF in Edge itself and in the Xert App), I can find a distance which is definitely not correct, nevertheless the Activities page in xertonlie shows a distance of 25km…

…don’t know, where it gets its distance, though.
@Xert: does it get its data during the activitiy (e.g. “live stream” from Xert App on Edge, via Smartphone to Xert) or only from the .FIT files?

Bad:
In any file after Dec. 5th, e.g. from yesterday:

I can also find coordinates (even though GPS is OFF in Edge itself and in the Xert App) and a weird distance, but this time the axctivities page shows:

The only thing i can think of which might be the cause:
on Dec. 5th, the Edge had the firmware 15.17 where as on the following activities it had a version above (enrolled in beta )

What i am trying next is to revert back to 15.17 (or a version before that, and upgrade to 15.17, if possible)

one more thing: i am not concerned or worried if i can’t see the speed/distance after the activity…it’s just i want to understand it.

Thank you,
Ron

PS: does anyone know, where i can find the GPS setting (ON or OFF) in the fit files?

[wescaine (Wesley Caine)]

@DaRon

But i cannot make it work as the manual says. Once i pair the Tacx as trainer, I cannot use it in the Xert App anymore. There is no power, no speed and therefore no distance.
I mentioned that here

@DaRon

note: even if the Smart trainer is the only sensor paired, i cannot select it in the Xert App. So it seems, that the smart trainer must not paired (or beeing disabled) via Edge at all.

It’s been a while since I used the garmin app but my read is that you don’t need to select it in the app itself, once it’s paired in the garmin. Your post implies you are trying to select within the app and having issues. Have you tried just doing what the instructions say I.e. configuring as a trainer on your garmin, and then simply running the app?

[fljones3 (Frank Jones)]

Shot in the dark but are you using bluetooth for all your connections. Have the Garmin use ANT+.

[ManofSteele (Scott Steele)]

@wescaine is correct… If the trainer is paired in the Garmin menu, you will not be able to select it in the Xert app (but that shouldn’t be needed).

You can tap the screen to being up the menu and switch between GPS ON/OFF.

Been a while since I’ve used the Garmin app - I find the EBC apps much easier to configure/use. IIRC, distance should work if the sensor is paired in the Garmin menu. If it’s paired in the app (which is required for power match), then the speed/distance data is written in the developer CIQ fields. I don’t think that Garmin/Strava reads data from the developer field, so they might not get the correct distance. Xert does read from the developer fields, so should get the correct speed/distance as long as the file goes straight from Garmin to Xert.

[DaRon (Ronald Nachbargauer)]

@wescaine yes, i did that and mentioned that in one of my earlier posts.

@DaRon

If the trainer is paired via Edge, i cannot select it in the Xert App anymore → no speed /distance at all → that makes sense: no sensor, no data

but you are right, its written in a way that you could missunderstand it easily.
what i was trying to say:
if the Tcx is paired with the Edge, i do not have any data (neither power, nor speed/destance) in the Xert App available and i cannot select the Trainer in the Xert App either.

@fljones3

Shot in the dark but are you using bluetooth for all your connections. Have the Garmin use ANT+.

i am pretty sure, that the Trainer is connected via ANT+ to the Edge

@ManofSteele

You can tap the screen to being up the menu and switch between GPS ON/OFF.

thats what i also mentioned earlier…
1st post:

@DaRon

GPS is OFF (on Edge itself AND Xert Player)

and 5th post

@DaRon

I can find coordinates (even though GPS is OFF in Edge itself and in the Xert App), I

regarding:

@ManofSteele

Xert does read from the developer fields, so should get the correct speed/distance as long as the file goes straight from Garmin to Xert.

If this is the case…why is there no data available in Xert either? see screen shots above!

and in general: why are there GPS coordinates in the FIT file even though GPS is OFF in Edge and Xert App?

Thank you all for your help so far! highly apreciated!

Next 2 steps: trying to find an old FW file for the Edge (anything before 15.17 or even 15.17)
and swithign to Xert App on Android and test again

Ron

[ManofSteele (Scott Steele)]

@DaRon

and in general: why are there GPS coordinates in the FIT file even though GPS is OFF in Edge and Xert App?

Which Profile on the Garmin are you using when launching the workout player app? IIRC, you may need to switch to a profile that has GPS disabled as well. Garmin doesn’t disable your default profiles when our app (or any other app) is active.

Should also mention now that you should disable text/call notifications, as well as disabling WiFi on the Garmin before using the Xert Workout Player. Since Garmin doesn’t disable those when an app is running nor is there a way to clear the notification, it can negatively impact your experience. Also, disable WiFi so the Xert player uses your phone to fetch the workout from Xert via the GCM app, rather than trying to fetch the workout using the built-in WiFi, which won’t work.

[DaRon (Ronald Nachbargauer)]

Hi again,

@ManofSteele

Which Profile on the Garmin are you using when launching the workout player app? IIRC, you may need to switch to a profile that has GPS disabled as well. Garmin doesn’t disable your default profiles when our app (or any other app) is active.

Well…none. On start screen, there is no profile selected, I pull the menu, select > Connect IQ > and then Xert Player.

I have two profiles, one for indoor and one for the training on the Tacx. What i figured out yesterday is the following (not a real test, but rather checking the settings in the particular profile).

If GPS in “device setting” (pull the menu from the top of the screen) is ON, the profiles will look like this:

1. Indoor/Tacx profile: GPS is set to OFF
2. Outdoor profile: GPS is set tto ON

If GPS in “device setting” (pull the menu from the top of the screen) is OFF, the profiles will look like this:

1. Indoor/Tacx profile: GPS is set to OFF
2. Outdoor profile: GPS is set tto OFF

So, the global setting will overwrite the profile setting!

Here’s what i tried (real test) with either profile an start screen, but no profile selected (you can flip through the profiles on the start screen prior selecting the profile) displayed.
→ (with ON/OFF alsways GPS is meant):
Device: ON, Indoor profile OFF, start Xert App, in-app OFF
Device: ON, Outdor profile ON, start Xert App, in-app OFF
Device: OFF, Indoor profile OFF, start Xert App, in-app OFF
Device: OFF, Outdor profile OFF (because of the global setting), start Xert App, in-app OFF

no matter which way i tried it, always the same result: speed is lost after ~7-10mins and there are GPS coordinates in the .FIT file afterwards.

weird…
todays training will be done with the Android app… hope that works better.
Ron

[ridgerider2]

Unless you are a multi-sport athlete married to Garmin Connect as your fitness hub, I suggest running EBC on your phone for indoor workouts. EBC has many more features and is easier to use. No Garmin issues to circumvent which can also pop-up after firmware updates. However, you shouldn’t need to downgrade the firmware unless everything was working fine before the last update. OTOH “weird” does come to mind when I think about my Garmin days.

When working correctly with an Indoor profile configured on the Garmin, GPS Off, other gotchas mentioned by @ManofSteele addressed, and sensors paired under Garmin settings (not Xert player) then speed and distance are estimated based on power alone. This provides a rough idea of what you may have ridden outdoors on a calm day on a perfectly flat course.

[idefix (Idefix Little-Dog)]

Even if you are a multi-sport athlete married to Garmin Connect as your fitness hub you could and should use EBC an a phone indoors to run Xert workouts. It does not keep you from recording with your Garmin indoor profile (using ANT+ power connection) and saving the Garmin and discarding the Xert recording. At least that’s how I do it, on a Garmin watch (multi-sport) but that makes no difference. The Edge Xert player is a possibility, mine usually worked but I’m not interested in speed or distance indoors as that makes no sense to me when I am not moving at all, it can’t be anything but an estimate, power and heart rate and cadence are real measurements and enough data for me. But Android Xert EBC is just better than the Garmin Xert Player in every way so I switched to that a long while ago. A Garmin app can only do so much even if it is working as it should, a smart phone is just a better platform with more capable hardware.