I appreciate your continued effort - but this is why I started a thread. You haven’t answered any of my questions, and neither does any of the instructional media and/or pages.
In fact reading through the forums I can’t find a single thread where someone gets an answer to their question.
I even asked it a second time, but you ignored it again.
Apologies - it may be that nobody on here speaks English as a first language - and that could be confusing things.
I think I might just not have the patience for this, or it might be that the software only makes sense in another language or if you accept that you’re basically going to be an alpha / beta tester.
If all you want is to achieve a breakthrough you can do any, just needs to be failure / all out. It also depends which part of your signature you want to update most… if it’s PP and HIE go for the higher efforts (and breakthrough quicker), but if you want a better TP estimate you really want to draw down MPA over a longer time, so more evenly paced is better. Or do both, just not on the same day
Being in slope mode helps, as said, also to get a more ‘natural’ failure pattern.
Only other thing to consider is that quite a few users report inflated signatures from repeated on off intervals, myself included…though I haven’t checked since the latest updates… potentially something to do with how quickly /accurately different powermeters report the ‘off’ intervals (I.e, some may not adjust down quickly enough / over report rest interval power… which is fine for a few intervals but when you do 13+ in a row to BT I can see how it may distort things…). Anyway, I personally tend to only include longer / continuous efforts now (or flag those that are too ‘on off’)
If you have concerns about riding workouts in slope mode vs ERG control it’s really not much different. Targets stay the same. Gears/cadence control how well you attain/maintain targets.
Yes, you will need to experiment by riding some workouts in Slope mode to see what’s required.
You want to determine which gears/cadence combo works best with your bike/trainer for high and low watts.
There isn’t any special pacing involved for breakthrough workouts. You either complete the workout as defined or you don’t. The important component for a BT is whether you can exceed MPA at any given point during the activity (workout or outdoor ride), how long you can exceed it, and how often.
So I did the 3x 13*30/15s. Initial asking power was 400, so I did the first set at 100%, second at 105%, third at 110-115% and a couple of sprints to bring my peak back up.
All very easy and manageable, HR didn’t get above threshold until the last set. It brought me up by 20ish watts on TP; still quite a lot low.
I’ll just let the Xert thing slowly adjust to my fitness I guess by overperforming on each of the intensity days I schedule.
I still just don’t really get when the workouts are expecting me to go all out on a set or pace it, or pace it so as to complete the sets.
e.g. Imagine a workout with 5*5@110%ish. Am i going into that trying to pick a power to sustain for 25 mins total, or am I going in trying to produce a 5min pb power in interval 1, or ramping for a pb in interval 5? If I spank out 500w for rep 1, I’m barely going to get above FTP for rep 2.
I’m so used to just being given a power to hit and focusing on that. None of the trainerroad workouts are set up for any variability in output.
The original Ronnestad study that used micro-intervals was prescribed this way (Iso-effort in the paper). Participants were told to sustain the highest effort they could across the entire workout. I can appreciate this approach in place of the more usual work-clamped approach, since (IMO) these sort of all-out workouts should be done by feel.
Other studies from Billat & more recently from Ronnestadt & colleagues will often mention “time above 90% HRmax” and/or “time above 90% VO2max” - if that’s the goal, then this 'fast start & fade approach may work well, since it will quickly accelerate your HR/VO2 towards 90% of max, and it will remain >90% even as the amount of power you can generate declines. To me, the constant elevation of HR/VO2 after the ‘hard start’ strongly suggests (to me) that MPA is a true phenomenon.
I’ve done many of these efforts over the years, having done a bit of each:
30/30’s to failure… starting easy & progressively increasing my effort:
3 x [13x 30/15] with Iso-effort, aiming to reach failure at the last interval or two of each set. When I can baaaarely reach MPA at the tail end of all 3 sets, that’s when I know I’m in top form. I’m most proud of these efforts - they’re very rare, at least for me.
Did you do this in ERG mode? If it felt easy, then your signature is likely underestimated. I don’t usually look very much at my power when doing 30/15 micro-intervals. I usually go by feel, such that I’m at a 10/10 effort by the last couple of intervals for each set. But either way, I’m usually above 85% HRmax for most of the workout…
Most (nearly all) of the Xert workouts are not designed to take you to failure, with the exception of workouts that have the “Breakthrough” tag. Going all out can be good for race prep or for validating your signature, but other than that, they can be unnecessarily difficult & potentially cause unnecessary excess fatigue.
If you’re looking to get a Breakthrough, then you’ll need to hold your 5 min power for at least 5 min. For me, my 5 min power is ~127% FTP, so 5x5 @ 110% wouldn’t be enough for me to generate a BT unless I were to go by feel and push harder than 110%. Side note, this is also why Xert doesn’t recommend many workout intervals by %FTP, since 110% can mean very different things for different athletes.
I did it on “automatic”, which turned out to be ERG. I assumed therefore that Xert wanted me to do the intervals on erg, and so just increased the intensity. I probably should have done it more and earlier.
I understand “how I need to breakthrough”. What I’m trying to understand is: What is Xert telling me I should do? How do I know when it wants me to ride an interval at 10/10, ride the set at 10/10, or Ride the interval or Set at a given power? There is nothing in the workout or player that tells you this.
AUTO mode in Xert EBC supports both ERG controlled intervals and Slope mode intervals when a workout is tagged MIXEDMODE.
The difference is you’ll use gears/cadence to reach a target value while in Slope mode.
As a slope-based interval begins, trainer control passes on to you. This requires monitoring the rainbow gauge target/watt arrows on the EBC app or gauge and power chart targets on the Remote or Session Player. You’ll need to shift gears and/or cadence to hit the intended targets.
The rainbow gauge on the Session Player includes four indicators to help guide you along on intervals and alert you to potential BT events.
Target watt arrow (try to match your gear/cadence watts to this when in Slope mode).
Cadence Optimizer (suggested rpm range for target watts).
Purple band on the rainbow (will expand if a BT event draws near).
MPA gauge (will drawdown or fill back in based on strain level and time spent above and below TP).
Notice when you view a workout like A Pain That I’m Used the chart indicates expected results with your current signature applied. Example:
Where the MPA drawdown line meets a target value indicates likely failure points – if you get that far into each set.
This particular workout is rated 4-1/2 diamonds with 140 Difficulty score (Hard, top of scale).
Many users won’t be able to complete all intervals in each set successfully to the very end.
It depends on your current training status and pain capacity. For example, someone at 2 stars TL will have a hard time completing a 4+ diamond workout to full compliance. You don’t need to do that in order to trigger a BT during this workout. What matters is you tried your best and were able to continue pushing through while MPA is drawn down.
If you prefer to try a BT workout designed to be ridden entirely under ERG control when in AUTO mode, try this one.
If you’re following Xert recommendations, just follow the workout power targets… from the training advisor… it does give power targets… and they are different for each workout depending on intended difficulty, focus, program phase etc… (The choice you have is whether to ride in ERG or not, but follow the target either way).
This assumes your signature is up to date. If you want to know in advance how hard a workout will be (eg to check whether your RPE is in line with that ‘expected’ for the workout) you can look at both difficulty score (higher is harder) and / or look at the workout graph to see how close MPA comes to target power (closer = nearer BT = harder). If a high difficulty workout, or one that brings your near BT feels easy, there’s a good chance your signature is too low
Xert doesn’t ‘recommend’ breakthrough workouts which are the only ones that are all out. You will get a small warning when your signature is ‘stale’, but it’s still up to you to get a BT however you want
Workout scheduled in the planner. Log in a bit early as my timeline changed - hey thats xerts flexibility right?
No. I can only warmup. I can’t start the workout. I can’t skip the warmup. There is no way to do this. Now I can’t do my session as I won’t have time this afternoon because they didn’t think that anyone might want to just log in an go straight to a workout.
I spent 25 minutes searching for a solution. There is nothing in the wiki. Nothing in the blog. Nothing on the forums.
I have no idea who coded this but I am so angry with them; almost to the state that I hope the company goes bankrupt.
If you schedule a Session it starts at the scheduled time.
You can always use Play Now from the Training page (and elsewhere) to start a workout on demand. You can also clear a selected workout/session from the Training page and pick something else.
EBC syncs to whatever you have selected or scheduled on XO (xertonline.com).
When you change selection on XO, swipe down on EBC app to resync with XO.
Are you using iOS or Android EBC?
Why is there no skip warmup button?
Agreed, That would be a useful function when riding a session solo.
Sessions were designed to support group workouts so a scheduled Start time supports a warm-up period for those who join the session before it starts.
As it works now the only way to shorten a warm-up is by editing the Start time. For example, schedule a session to start 10 minutes from now as you get ready to workout. However, it’s simpler to use Play Now from the Training page.
So planning workouts ahead of time is only reserved for group workouts? what moron decided that?
I didn’t ask set or decide a fixed time. The engine told me to do this workout. I just did 30/15s, yet it told me to do vo2 and sprints the next day. i tried to schedule some z2 but nope - no workouts available.
I mean this is aside from the eye bleach ui, no consideration of hr, 3s interval lag on every set…
You can pre-select whatever you want on the Planner which defaults to a Start time you normally train on same day of the week. I.e. you plan to do the indicated workout at the time noted.
You can ignore this on the Training page by selecting Play Now whenever you are ready to workout.
Play Now queues that workout for selection on EBC.
The workout doesn’t actually run until you start it on EBC.
I appreciate your persistence, but I did this. It loaded it into ebc with the 30 min warmup with no way out. Reset the whole process 5 times. Cleared it in xertonline. No, only warmup until scheduled time.
Go to Training page and Clear selection for today then use Play Now to select a workout.
After you hit Play Now, swipe down on EBC home page to sync with your selection.
Hmmm… I don’t get it. You should be able to kill that session and pick something else.
I usually select my workouts from the Training page. Maybe you need to kill that scheduled session on the Planner?
Firstly, thank you for trying Xert out. Xert has a lot to offer and covers a lot of different areas, more so than other platforms. We’re a small team doing our best to bring the value of these new insights you can get into ways to help you train.
You don’t have to eat the whole burger in one bite nor do you need to do everything that the system offers. Upload some rides. Do your regular thing for now. If you have a set of rides and workouts you like to do, just do them.
Breakthroughs will be the first thing you’ll get familiar with. These happen from time to time and for the vast majority of users, they don’t plan them or follow any set protocol. You just ride hard during a group ride or virtual Zwift ride and come back to see your numbers change. You can follow a set protocol and you’ve seen a few mentioned above but that’s uncommon and unnecessary. One of the advantages and beauty of the Xert system is that your changes are picked up from these breakthroughs with greater frequency and precision which the system uses to inform how you should train to improve towards a goal.
Many users stop there and just use Xert for tracking breakthroughs and progression towards their goal.
Try out a simple workout next. Just open the EBC app, pair it with your sensors and do the workout. Technically, you don’t need to plan it on the planner or create a session. Just choose from the list. The list will be order by what’s recommended. If there is a specific workout you want to do, such as the Ronnestad’s, you can search or filter for it. Try out some our smart workouts. Many are unlike anything you may have done before with variable intensity targets, some that change as you do them and we even throw in non-erg slope intervals for those times where it’s appropriate (such was when power targets are too high for erg mode).
Once you get a feel for all the new ideas and concepts, you’ll be more comformable following the Adaptive Training Advisor and seeing how it manages your training for improvement. We recently added Forecast AI which takes this to another level by looking for optimal training patterns for you to reach a specific goal and mapping out a plan to achieve it.
Good luck. I appreciate you keeping us on our toes. We are a small team but very responsive and helpful so don’t be afraid to send support@xertonline.com with any questions, complaints or ideas. We’re here to help you get through any challenges you might be facing.
