New to Xert - General Queries

General
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Hi Fellow Xert’s

I’m new to the program and reason i decided to sign up was that i liked that workouts automatically push to Zwift, the adaptive training function at face value is quite enticing and at worst case it’s cheaper than TP where if the adaptive training isn’t for me then i can program my own intervals and then plan them into the calendar and train like i normally do.

I feel like i’ve hit a bit of a plateau in terms of training and the adaptive function that looks at my past workouts and aligns a plan to my future goals sounds like a dream come true. Machine learning coach that can see data i cant and pick workouts that are tailored to me off my own data. Sounds great.

I also like MPA as it reminds me of watt balance off golden cheetah. Quite a good visual on how stuffed you can be during the a ride.

So please take the following with the lens of a new person

  • Power Curve / Fitness Signature

According Xert looking at my last 2 years of data off strava, it seem quite accurate for 10s, 5min, 10min, 20min down to 60mins etc.

Where i’ve got some serious doubts is my powers between 30s towards 5mins. According to it, i can pump out 550w (and in past workouts 590w) for 1 min and 415w (445w in past) for 2mins looking at my current and past fitness signatures.

Is it a case that the power curve is just off and overtly optimistic of my power numbers as I’ve never hit those numbers or been close to them… Or is it that i just need to grow a pair and trust that i can lay down power like a world class athlete?

For what it’s worth, my power curve on strava is more akin to what i was expecting, Xert seems to have captured something akin to my sprinting power (<30s) and my efforts > 5mins… Just the in between is questionable to me.

  • Adapted Training Plan,

Anyone ever follow the plan provided over say a 6month block period and got results they were over the moon on?

Xert seems either too cautious for me in that i prescribed it a 9 hr a week plan over 6 months and it indicated for 20mins the best i could do was +5w in the “green” font… I’m going for +20w. I know overtly ambitious but i could get 5w on my own just by committing to ride regularly and train to intervals i know in my current fitness. It’s still in the “yellow” but i think it’s at the limit of what it feels able to recommend.

My main queries around this are
a) considering the above query on power curve, will i likely find my hard workouts to be very hard as xert will think i can pump out +415w over 2 mins (i can’t or doubt very very much so)?
b) why does the start of the plan show a forecasted dip in threashold power prior a rise?

  • MPA
    Why does MPA value show that on long hard intervals it decreases down quite well to limit point of power but on short hard intervals (i.e. 1-3 mins) where i would ride to exhaustion it doesn’t show the same decrease? Is this linked to the power curve item above?

  • Heart Rate & Power
    Does Xert in it’s analysis consider historical heart rate and power in conjuction in determine ideal workouts and MPA?

Cheers & looking forward to seeing how Xert works for me.
DC

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Yes this is linked to the point above… assuming you went all out, you don’t seem to be able to breakthrough in short efforts suggesting PP, HIE or both are overstated (which also results in a modell3d power curve that is too high). Maybe check for data issues in past BTs? Support (via email) can also help directly

That one’s easier: no

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Blockquote
a) considering the above query on power curve, will i likely find my hard workouts to be very hard as xert will think i can pump out +415w over 2 mins (i can’t or doubt very very much so)?

Not necessarily. I think I’m in a similar boat to you, I just never bothered looking into the fine details of my power curve and try to correct any of it. There are plenty of very hard workouts within Xert, but I’ve never had any issues avoiding them while fulfilling the training program.

Blockquote
Xert seems either too cautious for me in that i prescribed it a 9 hr a week plan over 6 months and it indicated for 20mins the best i could do was +5w in the “green” font… I’m going for +20w. I know overtly

Yeah, it’s been my experience too that Xert can be a little bit on the conservative side in terms of the predicted gains, although as you get fitter and fitter the gains do slow down… I like to go for a breakthrough at least every 4-8 weeks (i.e. a maximal effort), then start a new training plan or at least recompute the old one. While breakthrough efforts are physically and mentally hard, I do believe it is critical to perform them on a regular basis in order to recompute the training plan for your current fitness signature. For this reason, and because I like tinkering with training plans, I cannot really see myself following the same plan for a full six months, although that’s strictly my personal preference.

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Thanks for the reply on this, I’ve emailed support on this as I’ve checked prior workout data and couldn’t find any workouts that would indicate power numbers close to what xert believes my fitness signature to be. I also looked at the BT’s but didn’t see anything of note.

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Considering my focus area is in the 10-20mins part of my power curve, i may not notice much impact i suppose as the fitness signature seems to align to what i believe my power curve to be… although i’m still curious what is causing xert to plot those numbers based on my past data.

Fair call and understand your preference around your training, it makes sense to me. I tend to look towards a peak period around Q3 of each year (coincides with personal cycling goals) and so a longer view is more normal for me. That said, I’ve not yet fully made time to understand breakthroughs and may find that very useful. The platform is all new to me so am still finding my feet.

As for “as you get fitter the gains slow down”… I’ve just off the back of xmas gluttony so there’s plenty to regain (&lose) :)… jokes aside, point is taken and valid. I’d like to think there’s more in the engine to give but maybe age, inherent capability and available training time are realizations i need to come to terms with :slight_smile:

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CAUTION: Information overload approaching :smiley: –

Xert’s Power Curve is not built strictly on MMP data points.
See: Is PP a theoretical number? - General - Xert Community Forum
There are three Power Duration curves shown for every activity. MMP and Signature curves for the activity plus Current Signature.

See results of my initial 120+ day indoor experiment on Xert. YMMV :wink:
Pre-Base to TED; 120+ days; 100% recommended workouts completed at 100% difficulty - General - Xert Community Forum

The dip is due to periodization being applied in respect to your current TL. It is more pronounced the further the target date is away. IOW there is no point jumpstarting a progression if the goal date is many months away. You can start with a taper. :slight_smile:
If desired you can adjust the Periodization Level and recast the plan to view the changes.

When your signature is dialed in, I think you’ll find MPA draw down is accurate across the range of efforts above TP.
You should be able to complete most workouts at 100% intensity in ERG control mode whenever your Status Stars count equals Diamond Difficulty count. That’s not to say at 3 Status Stars TL you can’t tackle a 4-diamond workout but it will be harder depending on Focus Power and Specificity.
Note: Exporting SMART workouts to Zwift may lose some functionality present with the EBC player. Some intervals can be harder or easier than intended when performed on Zwift. This is only an issue for HIT workouts that contain Target %MPA intervals.

It is recommended to validate your signature before running a forecast (or recast after a BT) –
See this “fitness test” workout post: From old trainer to smart trainer. Set FTP - Training - Xert Community Forum
Also: Breaking Through the Xert Way! – Xert

A forecast plan is not limited to predicted improvements but an estimate based on recent TL and calculated changes to TL (low/high/peak) and Signature values between now and target date.
Don’t hesitate to push the limits of the prediction by running a forecast with Achievability warnings into yellow like you have done or even red. You can always review the what-if result before deciding to save.
Regardless of what the forecast indicates, you can improve upon the prediction during the plan and recast as @tommying mentions.
Indeed, you can adjust and tweak a forecast if required throughout the duration of the plan. But the ability to take any detours narrows as you approach your target date.

HR is useful for analyzing activities without power; preferably with cadence. See HRDM.

For a deep dive on Xert’s approach :smiley: see this blog post –
Entering the Performance and Training Multi-Dimensional Universe – Xert

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Fantastic information reply! thank you and i’ll read through this all.

I enjoyed reading your 120 day experience as well.

Overall, first month impressions are positive and i see this platform has potential to work for me.

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Welcome! Always fun to start looking at the same data with a new perspective :smiley: Lots of good questions - thought I’d chime in on a couple:

Similar in concept but quite different in practice. The CP/W’ model uses some assumptions that we wouldn’t necessarily agree with. The key difference is that your MPA never goes to 0 - as you use up your HIE (the equivalent of W’), your MPA comes down. Xert says failure will occur when MPA reaches the power you’re trying to hold, not when your HIE is empty. You can never fully deplete your HIE since MPA limits your ability to expend it all.

Xert’s PD curve is a bit different than you’ll find elsewhere, which is just a mathematical average of your highest avg power over XYZ min. Xert uses your Fitness Signature - that is you Peak Power, HIE, and Threshold Power - to show you the highest possible power you could achieve with your signature, assuming you have the perfect cadence, pacing, etc. The only way I’d ever expect any of the values on a standard power curve to align with Xert’s curve is if you’re purposefully doing 5min, 10 min, 20 min efforts from fully fresh to failure at a steady, constant power.

FWIW, I’m in a similar boat. My year-to-date best 1-6 min avg power is quite a bit below what Xert calculates is possible. I’ve done some breakthrough efforts already this year, but none that would require me to ride 380 W from fresh to failure.

Not likely. None of our workouts will force you to ride to failure at these intensities. In fact, most of our Sprint or very high-power workouts are in Mixed Mode, which allows you to ride as hard as you can. We also have new features on the way which allow you to achieve the necessary training in an unstructured, dynamic way that works best for you.

This is the impact of ‘Periodization’ - this allows you to delay some training now while still hitting your training goals later. If you want, you can disable ‘Periodization’ from your Profile Settings page (or in the modify program page under General settings) by moving the slider to None/0%. This will allow your training to ramp up linearly from now towards your goal date.

Happy Xerting!
Scott

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