Magic Buckets, Challenge Level, Interval Duration display bug

When creating a magic buckets workout from a choose my training interface the interval duration looks like this (13s in this case).

Changing the challenge level to 9 (for example) the UI still says the interval duration is 13s but in fact the workout is now setup with 22s intervals.

If I manually change the interval duration to 78s I get one interval (lol) that matches the interface.

Maybe the UI is working as intended and I need to reframe how I think about it. :wink:

S

It’s still a very new concept, but appears to be working as expected :slight_smile:

We designed it such that moving up 1 Challenge Level is equivalent to moving 10% closer to a breakthrough at the target power. e.g. at the end of CL 1, you’re 10% of the way to a breakthrough at your target power. After completing CL 5, you’re 50% of the way to a breakthrough at your target power. Completing CL 10 would put you right on the verge of a breakthrough - don’t stop when you’re there - keep pushing!

I suspect there is confusion between reaching higher CL’s & maintaining your Challenge Level.

  • In order to reach higher CL’s, you’ll need to either ride harder (think like a ‘fast-start’ interval), or you’ll need to hold the target power for longer. If your interval duration for the target power is 20s, you’d need to hold 40s to move up 2 CL’s. The later options is what XMB generated workouts do when creating workouts at higher levels. Notice that the first couple of intervals were longer, but once you’ve reached the target CL, the intervals are all the same duration (13s, in your case).
  • Once you’ve reached the desired CL, the recovery interval will let you recover down to the next whole CL. To maintain your workout at that CL, you’d then only need to hold the effort for 1 interval duration to complete the CL again, (regardless of whether you’re at CL 3 or CL 9). Then recover again. Rinse and repeat until you need a break, or until High/Peak XSS is completed for the day.

Interval durations don’t vary at different CLs because your proximity to MPA makes higher CL’s more training efficient. Doing 350 W efforts when your MPA is 1100 W is different than doing 350W efforts when your MPA is 700 W. Xert knows this & gives you more credit for doing efforts under fatigue, even if the duration of the efforts is the same. Looking only at time in zones will never account for the effects of fatigue, since they would weight those two situations equally.

Here’s a free-styled example. IIRC, I did the first “set” around CL6, then CL 5, & finally CL 4.

Can I jump in here and ask is it just me or is the default CL set to 4 OR is it dependent on available time, required XSS, algorithm, maths etc.

I think the default is 1. edit: I was wrong … it defaults to “2” for me.

Hi @ManofSteele! Thanks so much for the reply.

I am more asking about the UI itself and how the interval durations as displayed dont match the interval durations in the chart itself after updating the challenge level.

It is a very small thing but I though the interval duration (number of seconds) was going to agree with the chart (number of seconds).

Not for me, I’ll ask support!

I wonder if it is because of how I got to that part of the interface? Basically XERT had a workout already ready for me and then I went into change it and selected to Magic Buckets tab. It does appear that it defaults to “2” for me in all the scheduled workout cases I’ve just checked.

1 Like

Doesn’t CL default to the level that matches today’s Difficulty which also relates to estimated workout duration?
For example, if the goal today is 138 XSS in ~1h50m minutes that equates to 3-diamond Difficulty (138/1.8=76 XSS hour).
Select the Magic Buckets tab and you’ll see the appropriate CL, target watts, and interval duration for a workout ~2 hours with a 3-diamond rating.
You can then tweak things by raising or lowering CL.
Lower CL and estimated time to complete the workout increases while Difficulty declines.
Raise CL and estimated time decreases while Difficulty increases.
In my experiments the interval seconds remain the same until you move past CL 5 and then some intervals will increase in duration and most or all increase if you move to CL 9. That change in seconds isn’t indicated on the form (bug?), but if you change interval duration with the slider that value does update on the form.

3 Likes

Thanks for the reply - that makes sense!

I’ve done a few of the XMB AI generated workouts. I’m enjoying them. However, I notice that the Peak (red) and Intensity (yellow) buckets forecast for the workout and actual after the workout are quite different. Last one was forecast at 4.3/11.4/83/99 and I got 2.4/7.5/92/102. The higher (2 instead of 83) low intensity is expected as I did a ramp warm up before I started the workout. However, I am surprised and the dramatically lower high intensity number (2.4 instead of 4.3) as I completed the workout as specified.

I’m riding a trainer, wahoo kickr bike, using its power as I do for 95% of my riding and all of my intense rides. I did the workout in erg mode.

Is the AI compensating for my slightly tired state? Or is the erg starting 1s latish enough to do this? Should I, and is there a way to start with a slightly more ambitious XMB so I end up closer to target (like extending the 13s intervals to 14s)?

  1. Disable Wahoo power smoothing if currently enabled.
  2. Try the same workout in Slope mode next time to avoid this issue during short high/peak intervals.

FWIW I perform some portion of most HIT workouts in Slope mode.
There is no way to fail workouts this way. Simply do your best and if you monitor the workout with XMB you can fill any bucket gaps before you’re done.

Thank you @ridgerider2 ! I had totally forgotten that 3 years ago when I set up my Wahoo I set power smoothing on. Took it off. Even on today’s Pure Endurance ride I could tell that Xert was better able to evaluate my power profile. I’ll let you know how it goes when I next do a XMB AI generated workout.