LTP Too low

  1. TP at 160 feels very easy as well.

So, your signature is (way) off. That can be fixed :sunglasses:

How? Via a breakthrough?

I mean, what kind of Breakthrough workout do I need to do to increase my LTP and TP? I don’t care about HIE as much as I can build it up via Vo2 Max workouts.

I’d say just get a breakthrough and include a max power sprint beforehand to get an accurate PP. Your TP and LTP will be what they are from the breakthrough. I’m not aware of a means of “getting” a higher or lower TP of LTP by “gaming” the system except by having an inaccurate PP.

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You don’t want to game the system anyways… what matters is that you get a good signature for you. I’ve played around with xert by just adjusting my signature…

i adjusted the signature so that the tp was similar to what the trainer road system thinks my ftp is… in doing that, i moved my signature away from a sprinter type and more towards a slow twitch endurance type… meaning i lowered pp and hie and used extract in my key tr ramp test workouts… the problem was that suddenly the xert endurance workouts were just too hard and too exhausting i think.

So after you get a good signature for you,
You should just focus on the workouts which will utilize your signature to give you workouts which will allow you to improve whatever aspects of cycling you want to be good at…

In my case, xert thinks I’m a sprinter (hard for me to accept as that’s not the type of athlete i want to be) and as such, my tp and ltp do not look as impressive to me as i would like… but i am choosing not to fight it, i want to try to work within those boundaries and raise the aspects of my fitness That i care about over time with workouts that are in more appropriate zones… I’ve barely begun, but right now I’m seriously trusting that things are going to go easier on training because I’m going to do a lot of slightly easier endurance and stop over-doing the sst zone from TR…


@isaac124 Good response. I was thinking the same. Keep on doing the training and see where the chips fall.
However, the issue is that the 2 start base workouts that xert prescribes at 111-120 watts ares to stupidly easy. I don’t think I am deriving any benefit from them.

This is why for a few weeks, I have decided to do the TrainerRoad Sweetspot workouts.

How much of the new user guides have you read at this point?
What about the podcast series?
As far as SST goes keep this in mind –

I think there is another article somewhere in regard to the fallacy of “no pain, no gain”.
Took me over a month to get knowledgeable enough to understand the core differences between Xert and other training platforms. Then months later to realize a different path to fitness could produce similar results.

If you think your signature is wrong you can correct it or ask to take a look at it.
Or try a BT workout in resistance mode and push on the last interval until failure.
Or do a RAMP test if that is what you are used to, but I don’t suggest relying on RAMP tests in the future. They aren’t required for Xert and are not reliable indicators of fitness.
To select either option click Workouts in left sidebar then search for “break through” or “ramp”.

Thanks for the links and advice @ridgerider2. I have been thinking about switching to a Polarized plan.
I just read the article. Very informative.
I will send a note to Xert Support as well.

Xert has TP at 160 but I assume TrainerRoad FTP was much higher, especially with a peak power well over 800.

It really does sound like you need to put a really good effort in outside on a good climb or try a BT session. The other option is to manually set your signature but personally I would try the first two suggestions over that.

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Thanks, @johnnybike, yes, my TR TP is much higher. I will be doing a BT session soon.

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@IAmHolland Thanks for this excellent advice. I was wondering which BT workout to do. I will do the one you recomment. It looks to be really intense.
I use the IOS app. Awesome. Thanks, again for the tips.

I should also add that Scott Steele from Xert repsonded to my Xert support request with similar suggestions. Thanks everyone. Closing this thread. :slight_smile:

Is there a link where I could read why ramp tests are not reliable indicators of fitness? I’m quite interested in this topic.


A RAMP test estimates the amount of watts a cyclist can sustain for 40-70 minutes (FTP).
So it’s basically an estimate of an estimate. :slight_smile:

You can certainly use RAMP tests to check FTP and verify your progress, but it’s only one facet of your overall fitness and capabilities.

Here are some Xert links that discuss this topic. You can find posts on other forums/blogs by searching the Internet for “FTP and RAMP tests”.

With Xert you don’t need periodic RAMP tests to estimate TP/FTP. Instead their system recalculates your fitness signature after every activity (or lack thereof over time).
I still do a RAMP test occasionally as a challenge but don’t rely on them for my fitness signature. As long as your weekly/monthly workouts include a variety of efforts (focus) your signature values should be valid.

Thank you so much, I went through some of the material you just sent me but seems that I still have a lot to read and also put pieces together.
I was asking because I did recently 20 min ftp test and also a ramp. The FTP based on those is different than what XERT estimates. Also, I suspect that my signature is not right since it doesn’t fit into the range from this chart.
and my data is as following

What I suspect is that my signature is wrong: the peak power is too low if I look on the chart and look where my HIE - 36.8kJ (should be between 1400-1800) is and also the Lower TP is too low. I am not sure if I was able to go higher on my trainer (TacX Flux S), but I will try soon to get some very high power intervals maybe it changes.

I also usually train for Half IM and not road races and I usually don’t do very short and hard intervals and lower PP might suit me more. I really don’t know :slight_smile:

If you’d like to try and fix your signature through further activity search the workout library for “breakthrough” and pick the standard BT workout (32 min) or version 2 (42 min).
If you haven’t ridden a BT workout before try it in ERG mode to get an idea what it does and see what PP you can achieve in that mode.
Otherwise ride the workout in resistance or slope mode and try to max out each high effort interval by switching gears and increasing cadence as necessary to hit the targets or exceed them.
Maxing out a BT workout takes a bit of practice but they are easier to perform than a RAMP or 20 minute test. An out of the saddle sprint may be necessary.

The max wattage on a Flux S is around 1500. You’ll need to be in your big ring and a small cog to hit your max power at high rpm. Be prepared to spin up quickly when the spiked intervals arrive. It is not uncommon for your outdoor PP to be higher than what you can achieve indoors on a trainer.

If the signature changes are not what you’d expect contact and ask them to review your data and adjust your signature to their recommendations.

I’d write to support directly… hard to be sure without seeing a lot more details (BT efforts, progression etc) but it looks off, especially for someone training mostly at lower intensities. They will take a look and tweak if necessary.
Not optimal to do lots of training around LTP if it’s significantly too low, so worth sorting

seems we overlapped and agree :slight_smile:

Thanks for the advice. I’ll try the sprint and BT as you suggested soon!