I second the suggestion about using HRV data. I use WHOOP and have data for going back more than a year and all of the big cardio work has been cycling on the road. Usually the same routes and equipment. I too would donate my data to assist in calibrating and validating software development.
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I second this. Using Oura + HRV4Training as my daily feedback, it would be even more useful integrated in Xert.
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Using and correlating HRV data in Xert would be a great option.
At this moment I use the Garmin VivioActive 4 which uses HRV for it’s " Body Battery" function.
Body Battery together with heart rate in rest provides excellent indicators how your body is doing in terms of training and recovery.
E.g. I don’t drink hardly any alcohol but when I drink one beer at night my heart rate in rest is 1-2 beats higher then normal. Also my Body Battery has less recovered during my sleep. It is just that sensitive.
Also a long and tough ride on the bike shows immediatly in thw Body Battery and heart rate in rest.
Was wondering about this myself, does body battery and other similar HRV measures strictly measure cardiovascular readiness? Does xata freshness also incorporate some kind of muscle fatigue as well? Is it different?
Either way, would be really cool to see this incorporated somewhere, although I imagine that on days with high body battery or whatever measure you’re using you can move the freshness slider up a notch and see what it yields.
That would be a great feature.
yes HRV as a metric for ready to perform, as well DFA a1 may be useful as a metric for readiness as well and may (very big may) be useful for other things like intensity. If it was individualized like the signature it might be more useful rather than absolute break points. I am a big proponent for HRV.
Couple of interesting series of tweets today from Marco Altini for those that follow new developments in HRV and DFAa1:
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I still think as in TP that HIE personalizes that aspect of the metric, DFA a1 has personal potential. There is some significance to the 0.5 split for certain in that this is where the correlation pattern become chaotic, and above which there is pattern. The 0.75 is still a valid option to understand where the boundary between easy and not may be. Marco also is talking about daily morning HRV in the first tweet. I don’t think it is s00% ready for prime time but much like TP may not tell a whole story so too HRV and DFA a1 may be pieces of a story that add context. What Bruce Rogers and Thomas Gronwald are saying is that it has a general applicability, not blanket applicability. In their recent paper they have a section that describes some of the limitations they see and what they hope for future direction. Just like 4 mmol lactate is NOT the threshold for everyone (as Dr Skiba notes well) so it seems to be the case that DFA a1 0.75 or 0.5 may not be the thresholds for everyone either. Human physiology is never that simple.
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I have found it difficult to use HRV4T consistently. I am curious, does a waking Garmin Body Battery number correlate with any of this? E.G, Waking BB of >80 means full training plans… etc?
Any thoughts?
1 min reading using phone camera every morning as soon as my alarm goes off - couldn’t be easier for me, personally. I’ve made a habit out of it and now I don’t think I can not do it. May just take a 30-day period of reminding yourself every morning YMMV
From what I know, Garmin’s proprietary BB is based on HRV and breathing rate (hard to get accurate from wrist-based sensor). But you could just manually account for that for the time being. In your example, if BB < 80, then filter workouts to <= 2.0 Diamond Endurance (or free-ride nice and easy). If BB > 80 then aim for one of the recommended HIIT workouts, use the Freshness Feedback slider, if necessary.
My camera doesn’t play nice with the app, otherwise I would use daily. (Samsung s21, just not getting good readings)
I chose 80 out of my hat…Is that an actual number you would use?
For what it’s worth, here is Garmin’s chart
I as well use the HRV4Training app every morning when I wake up. I am a bit more complicated in my approach, I have my heart rate strap next to the bed, put it on and do 2 minute orthostatic (2 min laying down 2 minute standing). I find this really easy, and for me if I am going to waste time doing it then I want good data that is why I do orthostatic. I had too many bad readings using the phone camera, whereas I have almost always optimal readings using the polar H9 strap. YMMV… but for me easy peasy. Now all we need is that morning HRV be a part of the Xert ecosystem!
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Yeah, I think as long as you find something that’s consistent on a day-to-day basis - that’s all that matters!
I think it’s easy enough to work any ‘readiness score’ into Xert already. I’ll outline very simply how I’ve already been doing this:
- If my training status is yellow in Xert, I already know I’ll be doing low-intensity riding.
- If my training status is blue, but HRV is outside of baseline (or I just don’t feel ready to go) I simply filter by 2-diamond endurance workouts (or free ride below LTP) and aim to hit close to my recommended XSS target
- If my training status is blue and HRV is good, I’ll look at the HIIT recommendations from XATA. I usually peek ahead in the week (using the fitness planner) to have a general idea of the recommended Focus & workouts
But that’s just how I do it. As always, YMMV 
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Old thread, new questions…
I have been trying to correlate my HRV in Garmin Metrics to the training status in Xert, but with the new Recovery Demands slider I’m finding it difficult to find my sweet spot.
If I match the slider so it roughly correlates with what I am getting from Garmin, I am too fresh (i.e Garmin says I’m blue, but my performance on the bike makes me think I should be yellow - Cardiovascular performance actually seemed fine, but putting out the wattage was tougher than it should be)
Is Garmin simply cardiovascular freshness but Xert freshness factors in neuromuscular fatigue as well?
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Might find this interesting:
Xert is calculating Freshness/Fatigue based on your recent training strain (XSS) relative to your training load(s). Garmin measures HRV overnight and provides a result (Balanced, High, Low, or Poor) based on the average value overnight? I think?
Either way, you’re much more likely to see impacts of non-training stresses reflected in HRV measurements, like alcohol, life stress, poor sleep, etc.
Also, don’t downplay your own perception… there’s been times where my training status in Xert might show blue/fresh and HRV might be in the normal range, but I’m not feeling up for a hard ride. On those days, I’ll just free ride below LTP and push off high intensity training for a day or two.
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Not even Garmin use HRV that way. Garmin has Training Readiness, which is calculated from:
- Sleep score
- Recovery time
- HRV status
- Acute training load
- Sleep score history
- Stress history
So, as you see, HRV is only one of six metrics used. Furthermore, they do not really use last day’s HRV, they use the average of your sleep HRV for the last 7 days and compare that to your baseline HRV. So a single night with a poor HRV reading will not have a major impact.
Correct - I think it is a very good measure and usually shows what I feel. Would love to be able to tie that to the Recovery Demands slider somehow, or even the Freshness Feedback on day of.
I think this is super easy. Don’t choose until the day of your training and select the activity/workout based on your readiness/HRV/whatever you’re using.
In fact, everyone should do exactly this but base it on how they feel. If you’re ill or more tired and there is a challenging high intensity workout scheduled, pick something else that you feel is better given your feelings/readiness. Do that. Adapt Forecast after. If the feeling is more chronic, slide the Recovery Demands right and Adapt Forecast.
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I find this really useful. I have a google sheets doc, that pulls the data from intervalls.icu, which takes the data from Garmin and gives me a recommendation. I have found that upcoming colds are seen here, before I even notice it myself.
This would be something that I think Xert could also take into account
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