Almost impossible to finish workouts

I’ve been using xert for a couple of years, but I’ve always had trouble finishing workouts.
This winter I really wanted to plan ahead, but today I had the usual problem. I can’t finish the workout unless I lower the intensity to 80%.

I come from about 4 weeks of rest and easy rides and have set the program type to target event with a slow improvement ratio.

I train indoors on a bike without a powermeter with a Wahoo Kickr V5 trainer, but when I go outside I use another bike with a Quarq powermeter.

I think the Quarq overestimates my PT and that’s why I can hold the workouts. Is this possible?
What can I do? Set my Freshness Feedback to -20 permanently? do all workouts with the intensity at 90 or 80%?

I’m 44 YO with a PT of 305-320watts I am not lazy and I have the ability to suffer… I use 2 vents and have a good place to train.

I remember that this past spring I was able to do 2 workouts in a row without modifying anything, but I was on vacation, not stressed, rested, and having slept very well.

Thank you very much for your help!!

If it was me I’d test this theory by trying the bike with the Quarq indoors. There are also tools you can use to see if the two power sources are very different, for example:

1 Like

Which workout?
What is your status stars count?
What is ATP currently set to? (TED, Continuous, Challenge)

Todays was [Free Ride - Rouleur - 90]
Now I have 3 stars and little bit of the 4th. My record was almost 4 stars this summer
307 watts TP rigth now. Maybe 325 was my best 2 months ago
Target Event mode set to may 2023, climber athlete type.

SInce last summer I was always on GC Specialist mode. using Target Event mode or Continous, but the problems/feelings are the same.

Continous mode feels even harder to hold on for me…

Maybe I feel better with endurance workouts like Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds - 120 or 180
Takin’ Care of Business - 120 it is hard but I could do it if I am well rested.
Sweet-Spot @90% - Classic 3x20 is is to endure psychologically for me, but is more “easy” for me

Tried Free Ride - Climber - 120 one moth ago. Was very hard and I had to lower the % intensity on the last set but I finished it. Maybe was on taper phase, I noticed that I did very well weeks later on the road. with this one.

This won’t help you solve your immediate problem, but going forward (to reiterate what others have said) you might as well compare the actual output of Quarq to your Kickr if you can.

Pedal-based power meters can read higher (3%) than your trainer because of drivetrain loss, and both meters may be accurate and calibrated. I found a thread saying that you can tune your Quarq PM output up/down in 0.5% slope increments but I don’t have one and there are different varieties.

Personal anecdote:

My 4iiii pedal meter reads 3% higher than my trainer, so to keep my training from getting out-of-whack I use the 4iiii settings to reduce my power output by that much. The key is consistency in Xert.

When I first moved to a direct-drive trainer from my wheel-on-trainer, I lost 10% of reported power with all other things being equal. My wheel-on-trainer was notorious for reading high, particularly during sprints. Workouts were VERY difficult to complete during this transition so I used the workout difficulty knob to make them doable until my signature adapted through normal decay.

Good luck!

If you use Xert EBC ios there is a power bias setting, but as above you need to figure out the bias somehow. Or guess eg 5%.

Otherwise, if you will be only riding indoors for a longer period you can adjust your signature downwards. It will make your progression chart look odd but at least you’ll train the right intensity. To do that, just do a proper BT effort indoors, then force an extraction (lower all signature parameters by eg 5% then click extract… may need some trial and error) and save it.

I don’t know the Quark PM but is it dual or single sided?

You can also check RPE during over/under workouts that hover at LTP or TP.
If both feel too hard, the power meter issue sounds likely.
Another way to test is to ride the Quarq equipped bike on the trainer and see what happens with EBC using Powermatch (the default) and switching the power sensor to the trainer during the workout.

Note that the Free Ride series are not meant to be ridden indoors under trainer control.
Those workouts would crush me if I tried to go that hard for that many intervals in a row under trainer control. :sob:
Outdoors they’d be more manageable since you can extend RIBs as necessary, but I expect most riders would have problems attaining target watts as fatigue sets in. You’ll likely achieve the strain intended regardless of whether you completed the entire set or not.
Free rides are more “do something like this” and try to reach the Focus and XSS goal for the day.

Continuous ATP will be harder since recommendations are similar to what you’ll get in Peak phase especially at 3 stars and higher.

With a TED in May you’re in pre-Base phase which is going to be a variety of workouts below/at/above your selected Athlete type.
Since you are 50+ days out from starting Base phase, I’d consider further tapering and reducing TL. IME it’s better to start a progression at a lower TL than jumping in at 3+ stars. Or consider focusing on base endurance including more time at/below LTP.

Some riders do well with SS workouts if that’s what you like to do. I’m not a fan of straight SS blocks and would rather do Takin Care of Business or similar workout that moves through SS rather than hang there. You should do what feels best for you.
Along the same lines you always have a choice when reviewing alternate workouts whether the top four or Load More. You can always select one with a lower difficulty rating.

Ok, there is a lot of info here.

Thanks a lot to ridgerider2, wescaine, tbsandee!!

Today I noticed that Kickr didn’t have the latest update, but I don’t think that’s the problem. I think it’s all in the difference between the Kickr and the Quarq.
Next Thursday I’ll try the ourdoor bike (Quarq) on the roller. We’ll see what happens

:sweat_smile:Hell, I’ve done a few Free Ride workouts on the roller… it was really hard to hold it in.

I just try to leave the Freshness Feedback at 0 and do the training recommended by Xert. Most of the time 2h max and doing some 3h when I’ve slept a lot.

…Now I understand why after doing a Breakthrough it was almost impossible to perform the workouts after the fitness firmware update. :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

Well, today I was able to do a little test by starting a workout on Xert and the Wahoo Element at the same time.
I found that generally the Quarq shows about 8, 10, or even 12 watts more than the Kickr, although it was a short test with the Element showing the 3 second average.
At no time was the Quarq showing less power than the Kickr.

Now I have to try to configure everything so that the Quarq controls the power the Kickr has to deliver.