Magic Buckets - same intervals every single time

Been using magic buckets for months now and when it’s not an endurance ride I get the exact same interval workout suggestion every single time, which is X number of intervals of 16sec @ 500w +/-. My current settings are Program : continuous & Type : Puncheur, which has a focus duration of 4 min. with 11-12 hours a week to train. Not once have I ever gotten a 3-4 min interval suggestion.

I know I can alter the duration of these intervals on the fly and often do. I rarely do the 16 second interval, usually 20sec on up to 2 min. Am I wrong in thinking that if I set my type to Puncheur xert will give me workouts that will help me improve my 4 min power? Is magic buckets a completely independent system? Magic bucket workouts are always very different than if I use the Ai to generate a workout.

Scott wrote this on another post about MB interval duration, “By default, Magic Buckets sets the default interval duration based on the time it would take to move up about 1.5 Challenge Levels at the target power.” He goes on to say you won’t be doing 3x20min with magic buckets.

This seems independent of the rider type you have selected. Right?

You can adjust interval duration on the website when adding a MB workout but it tops out at 79sec. I’ve watched a handful of videos on Magic Buckets and it seems like it’s just all about meeting your Xss for the day.

thats what it is for. Took me also some time to understand: XMB always calculates the highest(!) power with given high and peak ratio to fill the buckets as time efficient as possible.
As you see in the article below, at about 300W TP this athletes proposed interval power will always be 360-700W depending on his focus duration. XMB does not care on HIT other than pushing XHSS and XPSS.
You can do whatever other HIT workout you want instead.

That clarifies some things for me. Thanks so much for sending that along. I’ll dig in.

I never look at the interval duration on the MB screen, but instead look at the size of the buckets and the written recommendation in the workout for the day summary. So I can then do repeated effort for several minutes or occasionally a single long hill climb to fill the high and peak buckets or get a breakthrough. But, on those days I can’t really be bothered but I am pushing myself to complete a workout, I’ll do zooms, sprinting between telegraph posts or 2-3 telegraph posts to fill the buckets and get the work done. I guess I am treating it like a game in those instances, and it is amazing how it will turn a ride round

So I see MB as guide to the amount work I need to do in each bucket and then fill them as I see fit. XERT deals with progression side of things by increasing the size of the High and Peak buckets so I don’t need to think about that.

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I came to aske some questions about magic buckets and I think this answers my questions but I wanted to make sure I am getting it. I just started using magic buckets this week. For every day I am doing the magic bucket auto generation feature on the planner. I go in and look at what the workout is supposed to be. However that is never the workout that my garmin tells me to do. It does always have the correct XSS numbers, but the intervals are always higher power efforts than what was described in the workout in the planner. What I am reading here is that once the Garmin has it, the algorithm is going to give me the more efficient way possible to fill the buckets? If I want to do the prescribed workout from the planner I just have to remember what that was and do it on my own?

Yeah, I think you need to use the workout player which is a completely different window on your garmin, it can’t be added as a page unfortunately, if you want to follow the workout. Though when you first open the magic bucket window on your garmin it gives you a quick rundown of the workout. Usually ‘34’ intervals (that translates to 17 intervals hard and 17 in-between those hard ones) at around 170% of ftp. I really wish you could pull the outline back up after you’ve started but you can’t. Also, the workout you create online with magic buckets does not carry over to the magic bucket page on your garmin UNLESS you use the xert workout player (I think so someone can verify that). It takes a bit to learn the magic bucket page but once you do it’s possible to follow the workout using the timer, though it never tells you explicitly when to stop the interval, you just stop when you stop and the remaining XSS adjusts. It just has a timer that keeps rolling until you drop the watts. Though there is the ‘intesity’ bar that I think is calibrated to the current challenge level and once it reaches the far right you can stop the interval. I know, it’s convoluted.

I just try to do a variety of high intensity intervals with varying amounts of recovery. 20 second intervals one day and then 1 min another day. Because the stock magic buckets workout for me suggests 13 seconds at 540w with about 2 min recovery between which is such a strange workout compared to tradition. And a strange one to do every single time. Usually 30 on 30 off or 15 on and 15sec off. To keep the HR elevated. This allows full recovery. I never do that.

It’s a really strange method to do every time you workout and maybe the data is correct but it seems like you can hack your FTP by following these workouts. I got a 20 watt boost a week or so ago. My training has been consistent, nothing out of the ordinary and all of a sudden a 20 watt boost. Were my numbers way better than before? I don’t think so. The only thing I did different was around 8 minutes about FTP before I started the intervals around 8 minutes after that, if my memory is correct. On the contrary you can do an hour at FTP and it has no impact on FTP (probably drops it) and only impacts the low XSS number during the workout. Long winded but I hope it answers some questions.

You can also select that workout and then schedule it for the day. XMB should then pull in the numbers from your scheduled workout. This also works if it is suggesting endurance and you want intervals or vice-versa. Just find a workout with what you want and schedule it.

TL;DR – You can vary the HIT Focus Duration while in Continuous mode and/or vary the execution of XMB at the same Focus Duration.

In XATA Continuous mode you control the default XSS target by the Athlete Type/Focus you select under Settings. But you can vary Focus when you select on-the-fly from the Training page or assign a workout to the Planner.
For example, let’s say I am using XATA Continuous, GC Specialist/8-minute Power with a Maintenance Improvement Rate. If I don’t switch things up, the HIT target on fresh days will always be close to that spec. However, I can vary the XMB execution (see below) or I can select a different Focus workout using Filter and set that as today’s target from the Training page with Play Now or schedule a workout to the Planner with a different Focus. XMB will use that XSS ratio as the target instead of the default advice for the day.

I can also adjust Athlete Type under Program settings if I want to perform my own periodization schedule. For example, X weeks at 20-minute power (mostly endurance) then X weeks at GC Specialist/8-minute, insert a rest week, then X weeks at Puncheur/4-minute as my final goal.
Regardless of what Athlete Type I select in Continuous mode, or what the advice is for the day, I’ll occasionally insert a sprint workout into my schedule. That can be as simple as riding easy for 5 or more minutes with 20-30 second sprints sprinkled in until the sprint effort begins to degrade (done for the day).

If you play around with the XMB Workout Generator you’ll notice interval duration increases with a rise in CL. For example, 16 sec @500 watts at CL2 isn’t 16 secs at CL8. That’s not obvious unless you zoom in and hover on an interval. The micro-interval format remains but 16 sec isn’t a fixed value. You can also edit interval duration directly on the Workout Generator using the slider (up to 2 min). The interval count, MPA drawdown, rest-in-between, workout duration, and Difficulty level change accordingly.
Try the XMB Workout Generator and watch what happens to the chart if you double the default seconds versus increasing CL.

While the MB Generator tab creates a structured workout to follow there’s nothing stopping you from performing ad hoc longer intervals while free riding with XMB.
For example, tackle a traditional VO2max set with a watt target in the 105-125%TP range for 2+ minutes. You’ll be ignoring XMB guidelines, but the buckets will fill regardless.
I’d argue XMB can actually assist you with organically performing VO2max intervals.
The goal isn’t a strict watt target for X minutes but reaching a physiological state and holding it there to the best of your ability. Between the XMB rainbow arcs, CL gauge, interval timer, and HR field you have everything required to quantify that effort and repeat it.
Micro-intervals will also drive you into a VO2max state as long as you push to the CL required and repeat that effort with short recoveries.

When you closely adhere to XMB default guidelines for target watts, interval duration, and recovery countdown, all three buckets fill at the same rate in line with estimated activity time. However, you can shorten that time estimate and reduce interval count by increasing interval duration and complete the high/peak portion of the workout sooner.
You can also front load or back load the interval portion of a ride.

IMO the best way to learn XMB is to ride indoors without a workout selected and experiment on HIT days.
You can vary the execution of the workout to reach today’s goal. This becomes most evident the more you play with XMB and draw outside the lines.
Don’t want to do 23 micro intervals today? Shoot for 15 instead. Or go long at lower watts if up for a traditional VO2max challenge. Or go short and spiky and make it a sprint day.
XMB gamifies the process however you decide to fill the buckets. :+1:

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