High Workout Goal XSS on normally a day off

You know, that’s one of the few I hadn’t checked out, primarily because it isn’t available in MacOs, only iOs, and I don’t have an iPad. But maybe I’ll give it a try. It definitely looked cool.

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It’s really good. I use it with my 4k Apple TV. And it’s cheap.

Ok. I think my mum has an Apple TV that she doesn’t use much. Maybe she’d be willing to part with it? Haha. Unfortunately, without being able to use my Mac, it’s not a great option. Sigh.

Apparently there’s a mac version in build that will be released in a few weeks time.

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Sweet! I’ll definitely try it out when that’s available. The UI is beautiful from what I’ve seen.

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Maybe the Xert experience goes so horribly wrong for you because you have been overtraining since Christmas with the excitement over all the new stuff and lots of systems to try and so on. I certainly would have just because we’re older doesn’t mean we always have to be wise and responsible, right? :wink:
And now you gave all that data to Xert and it ‘thinks’ you’ve been doing this forever and are much more used to the training load than you actually are.
With Xert you do have to decide if you want to train and even how much and what is somewhat up to you, it only shows you a list of recommendations. But for me that’s the beauty in it, if I ignore the system today it adjusts it’s “plan” tomorrow. So if you want to do a race once a week Xert should work fine with simply importing that and taking the load created into account, down to Low, High, and Peak load aspects.
The Training pacer needle should tell you if you are on track to reach your improvement rate but you can always change that if you feel like doing more or less than usual on this day of the week, and if the freshness is not how you feel you should be able to adjust that as well. But yours seems to be out of wack.
Maybe @ManofSteele can take a look at your data and get it sorted. He usually fixes everyones Xert problems in one try :slight_smile:

Hi Idefix,

Xert hasn’t gone horribly wrong. And I’ve concluded what you’ve concluded. That I’m at a fatigue point for precisely the reasons you have laid out. (Right now, I think, my legs are trying to catch up to my improved cardio.) However, I’ve adjusted the FF as far left as possible and am on the lowest improvement setting, and the dial is still recommending training.

In other words, I can’t actually make adjustments with the tools Xert has given me to help Xert accurately reflect where I am at fatigue-wise. And if it can’t do that, I am wondering what I am paying for.

I’m not throwing the towel in, but if I’m going to stick with Xert, I’ll need confidence that the algorithm is actually “SMART”.

If that’s the case it sounds like some other issue… the lowest setting is off-season which should massively reduce the hours… and even suggests you can take a break? When I choose that the weekly hours halves vs my current moderate setting.

Also, if you adjust freshness all the way left you should have red stars and only be recommended recovery rides… that’s what happens for me

You definitely hit ‘update advice’ after adjusting, right? (on some layouts it can be hidden at the bottom of the screen I believe)

Okay, that explains a lot. :smiley:
I wasn’t trying to be condescending but explain that you are off course, why, and how to get back on course (file a support request). Hopefully you get there.

TR has alluded to “something for seniors” for years now. Why do you think I ended up here? :wink:

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Ya, I left TR for similar reasons. Was constantly getting burned out.

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I’m not sure I am “off course”. I have been closely charting all my rides, paying attention to my heart rate, giving myself a break after three weeks etc, etc, despite using different apps. I’ve made a 35-40 watt improvement in 6 weeks, but recently I started adding longer endurance and recovery rides to give myself different adaptations, and to begin to build a base in a more traditional manner. Pretty quickly my legs lost all their pop, and hurt like hell, which tells me I am needing to give them a break to make the adaptions to catch up to my improved cardio.

I am under the impression that Xert is supposed to be able to tell that from my data (that seems to be the niche in the market they are targeting) when I am fatigued and need a break, and so far I’ve found the app disappointing in that regard.

For instance, if I was looking at my data over the last 6 weeks I would notice that early on I was maxing out my heart rate close to 190, and averaging 173bpm over hard one hour rides. Then, after introducing longer endurance rides it becomes apparent that I am no longer able to push myself hard enough anaerobically to max out my aerobic power and/or heart rate. That tells me that my aerobic fitness has improved somewhat, but also that my legs are fatigued, and I can’t punch hard for short bursts, without more rest. Thus, interval workouts will be wasted, because I can’t really push myself into new adaption without catching up to the endurance I’ve been building in.

If your brand is “we can detect fatigue in real time and adjust” you ought to be able to deliver that. Maybe I’m expecting too much from the program, but I did think it advertised itself as being able to discern these kinds of patterns or information in ride data. That’s what appealed to me. The idea this app could prevent me from overtraining and burnout. I’m not seeing that.

Maybe, you’re right that it needs more input from me or something is wonky and needs tweaking. But I am just asking myself, if it can’t detect things like what I’ve outlined above, what am I paying for? You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to read up on structured training and build your own simple program, and tweak it on the fly, while paying attention to your ride data, body and fueling. What I’m willing to pay for is an app that is able to detect when I’m fatigued and make suggestions based on that.

Again, I’ll rest up, and then play around with things here in the next few days and see if I can’t get the app dialled in, and figure out how to make it work for me. I’ve got a few weeks here before I need to decide to whether to stick with it or not.

Addendum: If I can get this dialled in, I may become a great advocate for it. “There is no conversion without great argument…” or something like that, I read in an old John Le Carre novel I am re-reading.

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Today, after adjusting the FF slider, it is telling me I am very tired, to be fair. Although the dial is straight up and down recommending a recovery ride. Which I know is the best way to recover. However, I’m putting my feet up and watching sports. :grin:

I am hoping I can get this thing dialled in, soon, and it starts working for me.


Just to be clear, the FF slider does not affect the training pacer needle, only the colour of your stars and therefore whether you get recommended recovery (red) vs endurance (yellow) vs ‘program phase specific’ workouts (the others, usually blue if training).

The needle is driven by your improvement rate (set yours to off season or taper if you want a really easy week) and how much training you’ve done relative to that. If you’ve done a lot of riding this week and are still seeing the needle in the middle, I suspect it’s still based on some kind of ramp rate (or maybe you had a massive week last week).

Either way, yes, put your feet up for a couple of days then restart with some shorter endurance rides till your legs feel better

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My understanding of the feedback slider is that it changes your overall Form by the number on the slider, rather than changing your stars to the colour on the slider. There is a two-dimensional relationship between star colour and Form (Loww XSS and High + Peak XSS).

Here’s a chart showing how this works:

If, for some reason, your Form is actually very high it may be that the removing 60 from the total does not get you into the red. Not sure if that’s what’s going on here.

Form = Training Load - Recovery Load and goes red regardless of the Peak + High intensity Form, if it is less than -30% of your training load. This isn’t very well highlighted in Xert’s interface.

I wrote a summary of how it all works here: https://forum.xertonline.com/t/understanding-status/

It would be good if you could post screenshots of your XPMC with Training Load, Form and XSS turned on. Here’s mine:


Jordan, to get an understanding of how the system works and how to adjust things, try this: set your Improvement Rate to Slow and then only train with the Training Pacer arrow points left of center. You can also set your Freshness Feedback to 0. Follow the recommendations. The key for you is not training when you have a surplus.


Ok, thanks Armando.

Did you mean to say “only train WHEN the Training Pacer arrow points left of centre” ?

Correct. Typo.

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